i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53

[Bil]

Go to 'User Control Panel'then to 'Board preferances'then where it says style,click the arrow,and select 'blue'and 'reset'.You will get the old blue screen with the stuff back where it was on the page! Just figured it out!Maybe I am a computer thingy guy after all! ---bil

[42rocker]

Just old thread that still has interesting ideas in it.

Later 42rocker

[amafrank]

It was an interesting thread but needed more research. The Vz59 belts were a good idea but they don't work the same way the MG42 belts do. They require a rail in front of the belt to stop the link from being pushed forward. The rail also assists in angling the round down into the chamber. On the 42 the link on either side helps hold the belt in place so the one in the center can be pushed clear and there is a depressor to turn the round down in to the chamber. Lots of details in modding a gun like this and they are not always obvious til someone starts trying to do it......
Not sure why they were having troubles with the barrel....thats the easiest part. With a bolt head to fit I could have a barrel made up for them pretty quick. Wonder if anyone is still lurking on this project???


Frank

[42rocker]

When I see Troy at Knob Creek in Oct I'll talk with him about the project. Troy has BARRELXCHANGE and does a lot of 1919 30.06 or .308 to 7.62x54 rebuilds.

http://barrelxchange.com/index.html

I also know that he has work on the mg42 at some point so should make for a interesting talk.

With the difference in prices of ammo might be even more interesting now.

Later 42rocker

[amafrank]

When I see Troy at Knob Creek in Oct I'll talk with him about the project. Troy has BARRELXCHANGE and does a lot of 1919 30.06 or .308 to 7.62x54 rebuilds.

http://barrelxchange.com/index.html

I also know that he has work on the mg42 at some point so should make for a interesting talk.

With the difference in prices of ammo might be even more interesting now.

Later 42rocker

You can stop and talk to me at the creek too. I work for Ohio Ordnance works at the show and have been building and repairing machineguns, silencers and other NFA for a long time. Pretty new at the semi autos though.....OOW's tables are right at the entrance to the pole barn in the middle. Come by and ask for the guy with the mustache...

Frank

[Blanksguy]

amafrank,

Yep.........I'm still "lurking" on this.......
.......I wonder if the contact made with the Finns. received any additional information and/or clear/close photos of the feed-tray and inside the top-cover (?).

Regards, RichardS (Temp. in SA, TX.).
US Army, Retired.

[Der Alder]

I did some internet searching and found a pic of a Finnish MG42 in 54R. I wonder what museum this is at? It'd be great if we could get some pics of the top cover, internals and belts, etc. You would think that somewhere out there there has to be a blueprint or manual - anything.

[42rocker]

Frank
You and I ""bumped"" at the last show when you were setting up the mg34 mountain lafette. We talked at that time and a couple of other times. Good to match a name and a face. I've bought a lot of stuff from you folks. 1928 parts kit, another 28 water jacket, lots of bolts and and and. Lots of damage to my credit card over the years. See you on Thursday at the Oct,13 Knob Creek.

Yes, Folke talks about 7.62 x 54r mg42/m53's in his book briefly also.
Would like to know more. Thanks everyone for adding a few more things to this.

Later 42rocker

[amafrank]

Folke will be at the show too and might have some insight on the original Finnish gun. I think he handled it in person. My opinion of the conversion is that it won't be simple or as bulletproof as the 8mm/308 conversion. The big rim makes problems for more than just belts and the Czechs knew that. I've been working on the semi auto Vz59 for about year now and running the 54R in a push through belt is a painful and complicated thing. The belts used by the Finns were completely different than the Czech belts and had a different method of retaining and releasing the round. My thought is that the feedtray and bolt will be more difficult than some seem to think. The barrel on the other hand should be simple once a bolt head is setup to handle the 54R.

42 Rocker I'll probably recognize your face but names are a tough one with me.....I call my wife Dear so I don't get it wrong.....


Frank

[42rocker]

Reviewed Folke's book and found several nice pages that he did on this. Folke has more photos of this same mg42 redone in 7.62 by 54/53. Folke states that the bolt face was reworked and the feed pawls and the cartridge pressure plate and the feed tray. However the main factor was a new style belt. Which Folke shows several nice pictures of in his MG34-MG42 German Universal Machine Guns book.
So the major question before us I believe is where or how do we make or adopt or obtain a belt that will work.
It is common to take 1919 - .308 barrels and redo them into 7.62x54 barrels, so taking a .308 mg42 barrel and reworking it into a mg42 7.62x54 barrels sounds like it can be done. Redoing the pressure plate and feed pawls and bolt face and feed tray sound like something that can be done.
So who, what, where on the belt??

Any new thoughts on the belt??

Later 42rocker

[Blanksguy]

42rocker,

I would like some others to "chim-in" on the ability to use 1919-series barrels for this, or if they have to be slightly larger in bore diameter. I recall reading something about .311" vs. .314".......and maybe amafrank can help on this information (?).
We just don't need extra pressure during operation and using a correct diameter might be caled for here.

Regards, RichardS.
US Army, Retired.

[42rocker]

Blanksguy
Would love to see more folks chime in on this period. I might not understand your post just right. I was trying to say that they convert .308 barrels to 7.62x54 barrels with the 1919's. I'm hoping and thinking that someone out there could take a .308 mg42 barrel and convert it into a working mg42 7.62x54 without any major problems.

Are you saying that converting a .308 mg42 barrel to a working 7.62x54 mg42 barrel would or could be a problem?? This is not really my cup of tea so what are your thoughts??

An thoughts on belts and what could be used??

With the cost of ammo etc. I thought that this thread would be a good one to start talking about again. So thoughts anyone. I'll be meeting with Troy of barrelXchange at knob creek and I'll see Frank again and Folke also and try to talk with them about it also.

Later 42rocker

[Blanksguy]

42rocker,

My only concern at this point is just the inside diameter of the barrels to be used.

I believe that I read where the .308 barrel uses a bullet of .311"...........and a 7.62x54R uses a bullet of .314".
I hope that you can see the concern as the inside diameters of the barrel's bores may be different also.

Regards, RichardS
US Army, Retired.

[Der Alder]

I wonder if it would be possible to thread a Mosin barrel and fit it into an extention.

[amafrank]

I'm sure there are guys who are taking 1919 308 or 06 barrels and rechambering them to 7.62X54R but that doesn't make it a good idea. The bore diameter of the 308 is indeed .308 while the 54R is .311 to .313. I know you can run them and let the barrel swage the bullets but it will bump pressures and can cause damage. The reality is that there are barrel blanks out there in .311 bore diameter so why screw with something that you don't need to? Making a barrel to fit the 42 extension is simple and can be done quite easily. As I pointed out earlier the barrel is the easy part and I could come up with a barrel. Someone needs to come up with a feedtray, topcover, and belt to run the thing. I don't think the Vz59 belts will work without some serious mods to the feed system. The Vz belt includes a built in feedramp that pushes the round down as it goes forward. The feed cover would need a rail to act as a stop for the belt link. The rail gets in the way of the feedpawls.....lots of little details to work out the least of which is the barrel.

Hope that helps a little.

Frank

[42rocker]

Frank
Thanks for that input. In looking at the pics in Folke's book, it looks like the feed tray was just changed, therefore hopefully we could use rework a feed tray. The rest of it was hard to see in the pics as far as guessing what was done to change things.

Lets all keep working on this one and try to get together at Knob Creek for a few minutes on this on.

Later 42rocker

[amafrank]

You need to remember that the gun Folke pictured is a one off using a belt that is not available to the masses. Just modding the feedtray might work if you have their belts. If you're forced to use another belt you will need to mod other parts as well. That was the point I was trying to make with the Vz59 belts. The Finn belts were just like the MG42 belts in that they allowed the round to go forward into the barrel being controlled by the cartridge depressor in the topcover and held the cartridge by the rim. The Vz59 belt is not like that and for that reason if you try to use them you will need mods to the topcover as well. If you intend to make a conversion which is useable you'll need more than one belt and therefore will have to come up with something either reasonably makeable (not simple) or use something available(Vz59). The point of all this is to show that this is not a simple conversion and even though the Finns did it that doesn't mean every joe can do it too. Not saying our community is not capable but the end has to be worth the work to get there and I'm not sure if this one is...

Frank

[man_am_boden]

Here is an idea, I dont know if disintegrating or non disintegrating links would be better. Either way it may depend on if we can use either top cover or not and secondly if anyone would really want to wire all the links for non disintegrating together. But if someone could come up with the dimensions and a CAD or something we could send them off to a mfg and have them stamped/cut, however they are created. But take the basics that already work and then have say a cone shaped edge on the back of the belt/link which would allow rim to be funneled down and through the belt/link. There are plenty of place you could send your requirements to have them made, especially if there is a hundred of us wanting thousands or more of them. I for one would love to come up with something and will help invest a little capital towards this idea. Or if a few of us want to we could even sell the stuff and make a fortune through our new found company. Anyways back to the topic what do you guys think fo this link idea?

One other how much work would it be to run this in .30-06? If you took a .308 barrel and unscrewed it could you change it s headspace enough to allow the round to fit properly? And then run a MG3 conversion?

[42rocker]

I just received some UK 59 -- 7.62 x 54R ammo belts. Going to be looking at them over the weekend. When a couple of us got together and talked about this at Knob Creek this belt seemed to be the best way to go at that time. The UK 59 belt is also a push through belt like the mg34/42 belts. So that a start at least. More over the weekend.

Later 42rocker

[Blanksguy]

Going on another year........and thought that I would bring this thread back up to "life" again.

Any word on a place/or someone to make up the 7.62x54R barrels in the same contours/and extension-threads as the MG42 uses (?)........or are we thinking about using "worn" 7.62x51mm .308 barrels and just re-chambering these (?).

Belts (?)......are we still thinking the UK59 belt (?).
Best/cheapest "vendors" for UK59-Belts (?)

PHOTOs.......can someone scan and post the few photos from Folke's book of the 7.62x54R conversion. It would help with ideas and possibly clearing up some things on missing photos in this topic from a few years ago.

Feed-Tray-Conversions (?)....and the earlier missing photos of feed-trays with belts/ammo on them, etc..

Bolt-Head conversions (?).
Extractors and/or Extractor-conversions (?).

****And the "challenge"........the Cartridge-Depressor......and the possible use of a belt-stop and/or other top-cover/feed-tray modifications to use the UK59-Belts (?). Ideas.....(?)

Regards, RichardS
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@outlook.com