Sherwin-Williams PANZERGRAU Formula ??

Post by **Oldrelic** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:59 pm

I have just purchased a Yugo Lafette , and I wand to remove the Pea-Green paint , and repaint in WWII German
Panzergrau.

Does anyone have a Sherwin-Williams Formula for this color (Panzergrau) ?????

Also , I read on another thread about "Baking the paint" in Between coats (using Oil Based paint) ??

What is the reason to bake the paint , and what is the Actual process in doing this, ie. Temp , oven type,
time of bake ect. Will it Smell up my House ????

Sounds like silly questions , but I want to do it right !!

Any input will be a BIG HELP.

Oldrelic

Post by **42rocker** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:38 pm

I just posted on the other thread that you posted the above on. So please see the end of that post again for a few answers but not all of them. Ok I also copy pasted what I posted also.

http://mg42.us/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6981&p=91284#p91284

-------------------Following is copy pasted from the above thread ---------------------------------
Oldrelic
While I've tried to repost all of the pics in this thread I'm guessing at this time that I don't have them all and not one else is going to step forward with any of the other pics on this. I've called and pm-ed and emailed the thread writer, tomcatshaas and have not heard anything back from him at this time. I have hopes that he will get back with me on this and help repost the pics someday maybe.
That said I've spend about 1 hour so far getting together what pics that I can and have started posting what I can. The numbers that I used while downloading the pics were different than the numbers that he used while posting them and I know that I did not download them all because I always thought that this thread would be here with all of the pics. Oh well.
Ok, there was joking someplace or with tomcatshaas when I meet him in person or talked with him on the phone about his shake and bake method of his baking the paints dry. Remember shake and bake ovens?? Well tomcatshaas kind of made his own by taking the drawers out of his craftsman tool boxes and hanging the parts inside of them to dry and then adding a couple of lights inside. Just like the kids shake and bake ovens that working using a light blub. tomcatshaas used normal clamp on spotlights inside and then clamped plastic over the opening to make a drying oven that was hopefully dust free inside. You would have to talk with others about why the drying is used and temp etc.. I thought it was to make a harder stronger paint outer body and reduce the dry time.

As far as smell goes I believe the tomcatshaas did it in his garage and I'll never done anything like it so can't help there.

You might also want to check tommygunner's thread on his painting a lafette.

Also I believe that the red base coat was always used on the German lafettes. Then the outer color was added, that being up to what theater of war the lafette was going to.
----
from next post
On page one of this thread

fab posted the following """this is a 1940 dated lafette.... so if i will paint it in RAL 7021 "panzer grey" (Schwartzgrau) because it was the natural color."""

Well I then ran a search for """RAL 7021""" and found a lot of match's and I think that you will find your answer in reviewing a search.

One of many threads / posts that came up in my search.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4273

-------------------Above was copy pasted from the above talked about thread ---------------------------------
Later 42rocker

Post by **Oldrelic** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:25 pm

Thanks 42rocker for the 'Baking" info.

I would still like to find a Sherwin-Williams (Panzergrau) color formula, so that I can get the correct
color paint mix. Does anyone have it ????

Oldrelic

Post by **42rocker** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:09 am

From doing a search for RAL 7021

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL-Farbsystem --------- In German shows a lot more colors but in German that I can't read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL_color_standard --------- In English without as many colors.

Thread find "Dunkelgrau RAL 7021 ?"

http://mg42.us/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=537 ... 021#p45953

According to this thread, back in 2007 SW had the mix for RAL 7021 in their computers. Check it out.

Helping with this for several reasons.
1st to try to help
2nd someday planning to redo a few lafettes myself.

Later 42rocker

Post by **Oldrelic** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:37 am

Here is the LONG WINDED ENGLISH text to the wikipedia german sight explaining the RAL color chart , from the web site below.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL-Farbsystem

This article discusses the color catalog RAL CLASSIC, in addition, there are also the catalogs RAL DESIGN, RAL effect and RAL plastics.

As RAL-color is called standardized colors, the RAL GmbH (a subsidiary of the RAL-institute) under the name RAL CLASSIC sells. The name derives from Reichs-Ausschuss for delivery, which on 23. April 1925 was founded in Berlin and the rationalization of the German economy was used.

Each color of the Farbkatalogs is assigned a four-digit color number. This standardisation is based on a table of 40 colors, which in 1927 by Reichsausschuß for delivery terms (RAL) was created. The advantage of such standardisation is that the customer and the supplier only replace a RAL-number and no color pattern for defined material. Meanwhile RAL CLASSIC 213 shades. German enterprises were mostly added new colors to the colors for example 1992 Telegrey Telemagenta, Telegrey 1 and 2.

In 1940, the RAL-colors on the four-digit system, as it is commonly used today. Until 1944 it was realized the army camouflage case always by a " 7" or " 8" in the first place.

The color swatches are executed in two performances:

color register RAL 840-HR with matte finish
color register RAL 841-GL with a glossy finish.
RAL CLASSIC is not a color, but a gallery, a rough classification by color any more so because is missing. As color system brought the RAL Institute 1993 the RAL DESIGN System.

Color Table color table[EDIT according to RAL CLASSIC, in the default collation for color groups, such as the leading body marks (1000 = yellows, 2000er = oranges, 3000 = reds)

Many RAL-colors on monitors and printers are due to the differing Geratefarbraume not uniformly representable by approximations and only specified.
The RRGGBB-color code (sRGB) is displayed when the mouse pointer in the field "Color" is kept.
The device-independent CIEL * a * b * color values are specified (glamour, D65, 10Â° ).
In the fourth column are selected well-known uses of the respective RAL-color", a note with the user a Farbvorstellung can result

Oldrelic

Post by **Oldrelic** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:58 am

The English translation under the "Description, widespread examples" on the RAL chart for
WWII color usage for the two following numbers:

RAL 7021 - Under the name "Dark Gray" introduced in 1937 for the Wehrmacht

RAL 7016 - Color imported for the Wehrmacht.

I do believe that the RAL system is a standardised color system , I will try SW (Sherwin-
Williams Paints) after the Holiday to see if they CAN (?) mix "Panzergrau" using only the
RAL number.

Awesome find if it works , thanks again 42rocker

Oldrelic

Post by **42rocker** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:59 am

Just redid a couple of photos in the following link. Wish someone would supply a few more missing photos and help us out.

Check out the following thread with 2 restored pics

http://mg42.us/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4273&p=32376#p32376

Later 42rocker

Post by **Oldrelic** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:22 am

so .... it looks like 'Blackgrey' , and 'Panzergrau' is one and the same color on the RAL Chart.

It reads in German: Under the name 'Dark Gray' introduced in 1937 for the Wehrmacht , and under 'Color' it reads Blackgrey on the same line.

The color looks right on the chart too , and is listed as being used by the Wehrmacht.

I think that this will be the color that I will try to get for my Repaining of my Lafette
project.

I like the Dunkelgelb (Ordnance Tan, RAL 8020) , but I do not want to use Afrika korps colors, I want
it more European.

Oldrelic

Post by **Pug42** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:27 am

Just a small correction - Dunkelgelb (dark yellow) is RAL 7028, which is not in the current RAL colour range, unfortunately. RAL 8020 is one of the camo colours specified for Afrika - bound vehicles, the others being RAL 7027 and RAL 8000.

Post by **Oldrelic** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:55 pm

Well , I did it !!!
I purchased a Quart of paint at my Sherman-Williams paint store and re painted my newley purchased Yugo Lafette.

The color mix looks coeerct , but they can only mix it in Satan not Flat so it has a bit of a shint to it.

I found that buying a small aerosol can of "Testors- Dullcoat" (Lacquer) , I was able to lightly spray over the entire Lafette and take out most of tha shine,

I did this as a fairly quick project, and I did not do a complete rebuild. This was intended to be a old paint removal,
with new (CORECT WWII COLOR) painted back on. I did a fair amount of paint removal using a paint remover and hard
scrubbing.

I used a regular Air Gun/ Compressor to spray on the 'Panzergrau' color. Since I did not totaly dissasemble the tripod, only taking the Sled off of the stand , it was a bit difficult in spraying every nook and cranny. if you look close at the following
'first' photos , you can see several spots where the paint did not completely spray over the Valspar Red Oxide paint
used as a primer coat.

After a day of paint drying time, I was able to go back over the lafette with a Final coat of Panzergrau paint, cleaning up the 'Missed Spots' , and totaly covering the Red Oxide primer.

It is not a perfect job, but for my needs it does change the looks of the Lafette into a more WWII period gun mount.

Since it is a OIL BASED paint , I will let it dry a few more days before I really handle it too much.

I did purchase a Repro Range Finder Chart from Allegheny, still awaiting its arrival, Then I will Rivit it onto the mount !

This is for a Display Gun only, so Im not to shook up about not taking it Totally apart.

Look at the pics.

Old Relic

Post by **42rocker** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:53 am

Well it sure has a nice look to it. Enjoy it.

Later 42rocker

Post by **42rocker** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:37 am

Another old thread on lafette color.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6746

Later 42rocker

Post by **Cincylance** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:56 pm

Looks great.

Cincylance

Post by **pitfighter** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:00 am

I like it much better now - I also have the bright green Lafette version.
I am reading your post as inspiration

I bought a $16.00 range plate from Ebay - it was plastic, and too small for the existing rivets - blah -
The plate on the mount is a tin material, I would like a German one in that tin material - let us know how the RTG one is?

Nice work -

www.MG42.us