Gustloff assembled MG42 1943-Some questions.

[drm2m]

This is the gun which has been deactivated with a functioning action according to Canadian Regulations.











Sling markings.


QUESTIONS;

Why the reddish color on the Mauser manufactured camming piece?



The stock marking 1.TRZ stands for “Privi Technicki Remontni Zavod” or First Technical Overhaul Facility located in Cacak, Serbia formerly Yugoslavia.
Is this a German WWII butt stock or Yugo?
Were the stocks usually natural (oiled) wood finished or painted black for a 1943 dated gun?
Were the butt stocks wire wrapped as shown in the photos?
I am aware of the Bakelite butt stocks.
I am aware that the butt stock was not usually serial numbered to the gun ….I assume that this is a Yugo marking?





Thanks for your help.

David

[42rocker]

Wow... That's a heck of a first post... Welcome to one of the best mg42 and others website around...

Nice pics of a nice mg42.... That's just totally nice..

Ok, butt stocks for the German's were normally oiled and not painted black. Normally according to some the German butt stocks have 5 wire wraps not 6 like yours. As far as the camming device color, can't tell you why but can say I have several like it in color.

I'm sure that others will be along shortly to add their info.

Welcome to the group and and that's a Nice mg42.

Later 42rocker

[42rocker]

Just reviewed the shape of your butt stock again and it looks like a redone German one. Shape looks like a German shape to me. Also in this site there is a complete breakdown of your mg42's markings.
Could you post another pic of your front sight area, please? The whole front 12 inches or so. Thanks

Enjoy

Later 42rocker

[drm2m]

Thanks for the welcome and comments 42rocker.
The photos uploaded from Photobucket have been shortened in length so some of the full photos are not shown.
I don't know what that is all about?
This is my first post on this Forum.

As far as the reddish color on the Mauser manufactured camming piece, I remember reading a commentary on the P.38 Forum about certain problems with the blueing process at a point in time.
This is a Walther P.38 code ac42 that also shows this plum color probably caused by the same problem.

The photo of the Sns on the butt stock that got cut off in the post above.


David

[drm2m]

Sorry 42rocker, I missed your last request.
I have given up on the Photobucket images as they are all cut off in length.

Hopefully this is what you asked for.

David

[drm2m]

Two Gustloff assembled guns together, an MG34 1939 dated, and an MG42 1943 dated.

David

[42rocker]

Wow again, A nice pair of weapons. Your mg42 has a double "U" front sight area and the muzzle area is welded with holes. Looks nice. On your butt stock I can't tell still think due to it's shape that it's German that has been redone and now looks yugo. As your post states about the one state on the side of the butt stock. Look at the general shape of the mg34 stock and the mg42 stock and you will see the general shape looks close. Also the release button on the bottom of the stock is solid (also ribbed) and not hollow like the yugo release buttons.

This site will host it's own pics so you don't have to use a hosting service.

Later 42rocker

[drm2m]

I decided to re-post some of the photos that got cut short with the transfer from Photobucket.
In looking through previous posts I noticed that there were photos of other guns with the "plum" colored camming pieces.

It seems that many people have questions about butt stocks.....German or Yugo...wood or bakelite.
42rocker, your comment about this stock being German re-worked by the Yugos makes sense to me after looking at the shape of both German and Yugo butt stocks.
The release button is ribbed and "cof" marked as is shown in one of the photos below.

David

[jonathanseverin]

Hello, I have a couple of close relatives of your dfb 43 serials 4362 and 5237, both used post war by the Yugos. Both buttsttocks I have are in terms of the wood work Yugo, but aren't M53 buttstocks as they are fitted to WW2 German buffers with no gap. One of them is all Yugo manufacture (4362) the other is the same as yours German metal work/Yugo wood work. A couple of cracking guns you have Sir! All the best Jonathan.

[42rocker]

FYI I have butt stock caps that are made for yugo and /or German butt stocks. It's a pain but you can change out the metal and make a German butt stock fit a yugo buffer (Why?) or make a yugo butt stock fit a German buffer. All said and done some great looking weapons.

Later 42rocker

[drm2m]

Thanks Jonathan for posting photos of your two 1943 dated Gustloff assembled MG42s…serial numbered 4362 and 5237.

They are indeed close relatives as my gun is serial numbered 5447.

According to Folke Myrvang’s book the low serial number range for these 1943 dated code “dfb” guns was 1543 with the highest being 9317.

I have not paid much attention to this MG42 for quite some time.
I bought back in 2005 from the gunsmith that did the deactivation.

A few questions;

Who did the electro-pencil serial number markings on the feed tray….the Yugos or Germans?

I never noticed the numbers on the butt-stock bolt …..has anyone seen that before?
Looks like E774.

I assume that the numbers on the flash hinder are Yugo.

David

[42rocker]

drm2m
Several things. Look at your rear sight and I think that you will find a WaAmp mark above the front pivot pin. Now look at your flash hider and see the long number starting with the S-######, a S then number is normally the signs of a yugo part. Looks again at your butt stock and you will find the start of a number like that with the last part sanded off. Now the yugo's were not above adding their own S-### numbers to a German part. I still think that it's a German butt stock. On the feed tray can't tell you about it matching the receiver number. I hope that several others will chime in with their info. If you can look at and look for makers markers cof, brp. If it has a s-### on it then yugo and force matched. I would think about getting a different flash hider without the S-##### on it. Rest of the mg42 looks real nice, German that is.

All of the above are my thoughts and freely given and might be worth what was paid for them.

Enjoy Life.... You Both have posted some pics of some nice stuff. A shame that you can't fire them. A friend of mine that moved to Canada came down for the creek and enjoyed being able to shoot some to the fun stuff again.

Later 42rocker

[drm2m]

Thanks 42rocker for your comments, I appreciate them.
I went back to my notes taken after I purchased the gun, and this is what I found.

There are three WaA4 acceptance stamps on the top of the receiver just ahead of the butt stock.

Top cover markings – 5447, two WaA519 stamps, with the code “cof”

Left side of the receiver – 1943, MG 42, 5447, dfb with an eagle and ‘arz ‘.

Left side of trigger guard - “cof” and two WaA519 stamps.

“cof” code also found - on inside feed tray, and on small disassembly lever on the underside of the receiver just ahead of the butt stock.

Electro-pencilled marking of the serial number 5447 found –on the bottom of the machined part of the bolt ,on the outside face of the feed tray, on the booster cone inside the flash hinder . The booster cone also has 11.9mm and the number 6046 with a line through the number.

The flash hinder has the numbers S 113-19152.

The bipod has the marking S – 113-19181,
As well as a “ u” in a box and “bk”.

The cocking lever has the code “bpr” which was the code for Grossfuss.

The “camming piece” is marked “ar” with a WaA26 stamp This particular part has turned a “plum” color

I am content with the gun as it is, and I am not inclined to try and modify its history by changing different components that may be Yugo modifications…..it is what it is.

I am sure that your friend who moved to Canada enjoyed the shoot at the ‘creek’ …we don’t get to experience that kind of event in Canada.

I have an MP40 and MP44 (Both Erma assembled guns) that are ‘live in semi-auto’ and I can’t shoot them.

Thanks very much for your help.

David

[42rocker]

David
Another pair of nice weapons. You are also welcome to come down to the creek next time. Look up Knob Creek on the internet. Ride in a helicopter, shoot a few full auto mini guns and more. Have a great time. I know at least one car load of Canada's that will be there. My friend brings them down and they had a great time.
What I'm saying on the flash hider is to just change it out to a non marked one, keeping it of course. Also you could redo the butt stock by removing the paint and the marking and stain it again and it would look completely German. Or if you like it the way that you have it now leave it that way and enjoy it as it looks super nice. I believe that there is a topic on how another Canadian redid his butt stock and refinished it. Do a search under Michael J. He was a nice lad was on this site during nice high school time then went off to college and then something happened and a GREAT young man joined the big guy in the sky, a shame. Also on the butt stock I would work lightly around the 5447 and try to save it. I feel that that 5447 was added after to match the receiver number as it's over the S-######. Think about and check out what others have done in the past and how their weapons looked after the change out.

“cof” code also found - on inside feed tray, and on small disassembly lever on the underside of the receiver just ahead of the butt stock.
--- Another German part, the feed tray. That's good, might mean than the 5447 was put on when it was assembled by the German, hope that someone else can add more on this.

I hope that you ask more questions and share more stuff with this site.

Later 42rocker

[drm2m]

42rocker,

I appreciate all your suggestions, however, the 5447 serial number on the butt stock was put there by the Yugos not the Germans, this gun has that history and there is no denying it.
Would I prefer an unpainted stock.....yes.
Did the Yugos paint the stock ....most probably.
I would be trying to make the gun into something that it is not.
When I purchase collectables I tend to leave them as I got them.....or I don't buy them.
I may add accessories ....but that is about all I will do.

I won't buy a beater with the idea of restoring it.
I also collect U.S. Civil War arms and militaria and I try to buy the best pieces that I can afford, so the quality of the item speaks for itself......without my help.

I own two Bavarian marked M1 carbines, one of them is a real mixmaster but I have never been inclined to modify it.
It is what it is, and that is a specific part of its history.

I am aware of Knob Creek, it certainly sounds like an interesting event.....perhaps one day.

David

[drm2m]

42rocker,

This stock marking definitely ties this gun to the Yugos......it would be difficult to remove without butchering the stock.

1.TRZ stands for “Privi Technicki Remontni Zavod” or First Technical Overhaul Facility located
in Cacak, Serbia formerly Yugoslavia.

With the exception of the stock markings and Yugo number code on the flashhinder, the rest of the markings on the gun are German......and very clear.
And as you suggest ....the stock is of the German shape, not Yugo.

David

[42rocker]

I think that it is great that you like it so well. Just a few thoughts.
Hope that you get to go to the creek some day. If you do some of us from this board and the 1919 board try to meet at a spot called the "Y" on Friday and Saturday at Noon. If you get there please come and say "Hello"...
Thanks for posting the great pictures.

Later 42rocker

[drm2m]

Thanks for the suggestion 42rocker, if I ever get to Knob Creek, I will remember the "Y".

It occurred to me that because the buffer is welded to the frame (as part of the deactivation) and there is no screw head to get the buttstock off it would be a very awkward job trying to strip the paint from the stock with it attached to the gun.
Whatever type of paint stripper used would probably affect the finish on the frame of the gun where the butt stock is connected.(including the wire wrap)

Maybe the next fellow that owns this gun will decide to do it.

A question;

With the rate of fire of the MG42 between 900-1200 rpms what does one pay at Knob Creek for the please of shooting one?
How expensive is an outing at that event?
I am aware of what full autos are worth in the U.S. so I guess if you have to ask about the cost of the ammo ...you should not own one?

David

I can't imagine how one would strip this buttstock while attached to the gun without possibly creating other finishing problems?

As far as finding another flashhinder with the same finish as the rest of the gun......you might have to be really lucky. (But I don't know what parts are out there?)

[42rocker]

David
Question when you press the button on the bottom of the butt stock the butt stock should turn and release off the welded in buffer. Or is the butt stock welded to the buffer also? I remember seeing the weld area on the bottom of the receiver. In review I agree with you I would not redo the butt stock with all of that extra on it. I would think about getting another one. You are right on keeping that one as it is I think. 'I loved that pic that you posted with the Christmas setting and the mg34 and mg42. Great Pic.
Also almost forgot to add the number stamped on the bolt at the end of the butt stock is not normal (as far as I know), I have seen that spot stamped with a WaAmp before.

At the creek you would be hard pressed to get to fire a mg42, sub guns are mainly available. DA used to run a shoot in Minnesota were some folks were able to work something out with him and get to shoot his mg42.

Any rate most folks just run a belt or two of 50 through them. You should do a barrel change after 150 fa rounds. Most of us down here run semi auto's anyway.

Enjoy
Later 42rocker

[Abominog]

The "red" is usually referred to as "plum" color.

The plum is a result of the blueing process with high nickel content steel.

The plum color is often found on refinished SVT40 bolts; Entreprise also made a run of high nickel L1A1 receivers (I'm sure, not intentionally) in about 1993, and these, when blued, are plum in color.