Questions Before Beginning

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I live in MN. The paragraph regarding possession of a a full auto sear that can drop into a possessed semi auto firearm is not relevant to an MG-42 parts kit in which the receiver is torch cut to BATFE specifications. Now, if you had a semi auto HK submachinegun clone, and you possessed an unregistered full auto sear which you could use to convert that gun to select fire and enable it to operate in fully automatic mode, then you would be in violation of the law. The MG-42 is originally designed to operate in full auto mode ONLY, and the operation mechanism is of the "open bolt" design. A firearm that fires from "open bolt" is illegal, even in semi auto form, if the firearm is not registered with BATFE. Why? Because it was recognized long ago that all "open bolt" design firearms ARE easily converted to full auto mode with few internal modifications.

YOU MAY possess a MG-42 original kit that has the receiver torch cut (legally deactivated) and use it to build a semi auto gun USING A BATFE APPROVED design. Such a design WILL be firing from a closed bolt position, which is a legal configuration. The MG-42's that BRP and Leitner Wise made from kits that are available for sale commercially HAVE BEEN EXTENSIVELY redesigned to fire from a closed bolt position. Guns that fire from closed bolt ARE MORE complicated to build than open bolt guns, and conversions from one design to the other ARE NOT SIMPLE or easy to make. They require a complete reconfiguration of the internals. The guys on this board are knowledgeable about how to convert the MG-42 to a legal semi auto gun, which is defined as a rifle, and not a machinegun. The MG-42's that are converted internally to semi auto frequently have reliability issues, due to changes in the design, particularly the shortening of the recoil spring, which weakens the gun's available force to feed a cartridge into the chamber when compared to the original full auto version of the gun.

If you want to build a semi auto gun from WWII original machinegun parts, I suggest you listen to the guys on this board and make darn sure you redesign the firearm to an approved BATFE design. Stray from that course, and you are entering the gray area: the place where SOME BATFE agent MAY have the opinion that your gun design is too close to the original, illeagal version of the MG-42.

Your alternatives in Minnesota are:

Buy a transferable full auto MG-42 (registered between 1968 and 1986) AFTER getting a Class III SOT (license) (you pay about $350 ? for the license and about $8000-$10,000 for the gun)

or

Buy a Curio & Relic MG-42 (registered prior to November 1968) like I did, which is legal to possess without a license (you pay $200 for the transfer of the title, and about $33,000 for the gun... ouch!).

Now, I have had an BATFE agent tell me that if a TRANSFERABLE gun is on the list of guns for CURIOS AND RELICS, then you DO NOT need a Class III SOT! Knowing that the BATFE frequently gets their facts about guns and gun laws WRONG, you would do well to CONFIRM that statement with other local BATFE agents before attempting to purchase a transferable machine gun.

Whatever you do, DO IT LEGALLY. If you find yourself in front of a judge for a gun violation, the consequences are HIGH.


You mentioned that the MN Permit to Purchase applies to both pistols and "assault style" weapons. THIS IS TRUE. The Permit to Purchase is REALLY a GOOD THING. Here's why: It's easy to get. You just fill out the application at the Police Station and a week later, you have the permit. What happened in the mean time? The police do a background check to make sure you are NOT a felon. The permit helps ensure that when you go buy a gun, the gun seller can see with documentation that you are not a felon. The seller does not want to violate the law any more than the law abiding citizen. You don't need it for private purchases, only for buying from gun dealers. However, if I were to sell you a pistol or semi-auto AK-47 in a private sale, I WOULD ask to see your permit to purchase, just to cover MY BUTT. Many private sellers don't.

As for why the BATFE agent STRESSED that your home made gun have at LEAST a 16" barrel, that is a frequent law violated by home gun makers. You can make as MANY HOME MADE GUNS AS YOU WANT for use by YOURSELF, but you MAY NOT sell any of those guns to anyone else.... unless you get licensed as a gun manufacturer. Any gun you make MUST conform to the laws, including the 16" minimum rule for rifles.

That's the blunt skippy for Minnesota residents. Keep in mind that you are reading from MY experience with machine gun ownership and this is my opinion. Take what I say and VERIFY it with the BAFTE and research things yourself thoroughly. Never take the word of guys on the internet about gun laws without verifying them with your local authorities. Internet advice is frequently incomplete and sometimes outright wrong, though I have tried to be as complete as possible regarding your stated situation.

[42rocker]

Another interesting thought on this. If there is concern on certain parts in the mg42 parts kit, think about the ak-47 parts kit or a 1919a4 parts kit or pps-4 parts kit or ak-74, bren, sten, and on parts kits. And I'm sure that the list of parts kits could go on for a while, and they all come with several full auto parts in every kit. Is Minnesota the only state that would not allow these sales? We see ads everyday that make the statement that they will not sell this or that to certain states or counties Buttttttt I have never seen any statements about not selling parts kits to Minnesota and/or Minnesota residents going to jail for buying ak-47 parts kits or 1919a4 parts kits.
I can think of at least 3 or 4 folks that could have had problems over the stuff that they have sold me but I think that everything was legal.

I think that you need to talk to some other folks, DA has already made a few nice statements and if sure a few more will chime in on this also.

Keep listening to folks and ask more questions, Good Luck.

Later 42rocker

[42rocker]

Something else, someone from Wis. has a working mg42 (German) semi auto for sale for about $1800 as of Friday. Posted on the 1919a4.com board.

Later 42rocker

[42rocker]

He dropped his price

http://1919a4.com/showthread.php?39961- ... post354765

$1650.00 plus shipping

He might be willing to talk about a face to face, if interested talk to him. I have bought parts from him without a problem.

Later 42rocker

[JBaum]

A firearm that fires from "open bolt" is illegal, even in semi auto form, if the firearm is not registered with BATFE.

Not quite true. Semi auto guns were made in open bolt configuration, but then ATF ruled that they are too easily converted to full auto, and they banned the further production of open bolt guns. Those which were already made remain legal to possess and sell, without any special paperwork.

You can make as MANY HOME MADE GUNS AS YOU WANT for use by YOURSELF, but you MAY NOT sell any of those guns to anyone else.... unless you get licensed as a gun manufacturer.

Again, not quite true. You can make guns. You can sell the guns you make, but it must not be a business. Make a gun, sell it a year later to have the money to make another gun. You're not in business to make guns, and you're selling your personal property. Nothing illegal or regulated about that. Make 5 guns and put an ad on Gunbroker for them, you're in business, and you need licensed and they'll want the manufacturing tax.

Internet advice is frequently incomplete and sometimes outright wrong

Completely true.

[42rocker]

On the home made guns I also believe that it's a grey area rule but normally only one per year per type.. Again that's a grey area free internet kind of a thing. As so often happens it up to the agent in charge as to what rule applies at that time and we might get back to you with an update next week. Also you did not build it with a plan to resell.
Again free advice that with $5 you can normally get a cup of coffee.

Back to the build, video the first one that I have heard of is the one that you spoke of. As far as build plans, there are at least 3 on this website that you can view that I can think of, might be a few more, use search.

Later 42rocker

[Assassin42]

Thanks for the discussion. I don't doubt this will help out others. I am thinking of going the route of buying a parts kit, minus the FA grip stick and even cut receiver. I have found some of those kits available. I think it was BRP I read in a description for one of the kits that you can mention it is for a semi-auto only build and they will make the correct substitutions with the parts free of charge. Buy the semi only receiver halves and grip stick. And see from there. I would love to buy one outright especially at the price that was listed, but I would need to have the money for that right now. That's where the whole new job thing comes into play. Insufficient funds to do that right now.

I am hoping to get this job and start gathering up parts over the next few months. I am thinking about when I do the conversion to .308 during the built to use one of robertrtg.com MG-3 conversion kits. Then I should be able to fire the disintegrating link and non-disintegrating linked ammo belts. I know Sportsmans guide here in MN was selling cans of .308(7.62x51) linked until recently. Hope they still have some.

Yes, I do have a purchase permit and renewed it a last winter. The police chief brought it up during our conversation that I should have one on hand in case someone tries causing an issue when I buy parts. Told him I already had one signed by him.

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

A firearm that fires from "open bolt" is illegal, even in semi auto form, if the firearm is not registered with BATFE.

Not quite true. Semi auto guns were made in open bolt configuration, but then ATF ruled that they are too easily converted to full auto, and they banned the further production of open bolt guns. Those which were already made remain legal to possess and sell, without any special paperwork.

You can make as MANY HOME MADE GUNS AS YOU WANT for use by YOURSELF, but you MAY NOT sell any of those guns to anyone else.... unless you get licensed as a gun manufacturer.

Again, not quite true. You can make guns. You can sell the guns you make, but it must not be a business. Make a gun, sell it a year later to have the money to make another gun. You're not in business to make guns, and you're selling your personal property. Nothing illegal or regulated about that. Make 5 guns and put an ad on Gunbroker for them, you're in business, and you need licensed and they'll want the manufacturing tax.

Internet advice is frequently incomplete and sometimes outright wrong

Completely true.

Thanks for the clarifying details, John.

[Assassin42]

It occurred to me last night that someone could convert a semi-auto MG-42 to full auto easier than you may think.
DO NOT TRY THIS!!!!!
In the semi-auto grip stick you use either M16 or FN FAL fire control internals to replace the full auto parts from the original grip stick. Guess what...both those weapons in their original format were select fire with full-auto. So someone could potentially modify those original full-auto sears to fit this design and convert a semi to full. In any design that makes this possible it is highly dangerous and even more HIGHLY ILLEGAL. But it is possible. Doubt it would last more than 500-1000 rounds before you would have parts failure.

Definitely a do not try this at home thing.

[42rocker]

Sorry simple statement. What you are talking about can't be done with out adding a few other things. In order to make a semi auto the bolt gets changed so it would not work that way. Also in a legal semi there is a full auto bolt blocker. So a simple change that you are talking about can't be done. Granted if you were to make a full set of illegal parts (note illegal word) then it might work. These parts would not be used in a normal semi.
Review apex's stuff and brp's stuff on semi auto bolts and review your thoughts. Of course if you want to state on a public website that you can well that's up to you.

Good Luck on a semi auto build.

Later 42rocker

[Assassin42]

It is not something I ever plan to attempt. But it is something that occurred to me. I don't know the specifics how it would be attempted, and quit frankly I don't want to know. Nor want to see openly talked about. Because it is highly illegal and unsafe. But I remembered that the FAL and M-16A1 were both full auto. In theory possible, in practical real world not worth attempting.

If someone would want a full auto rebuild, get the class3 license and do it legally.

I'm going semi-auto.

[drooling idiot]

wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to convert the AR or FAL ?

Anyone with the skill level to build a legal SA MG42 has the skill set to build a FA one. Why would anyone want that level of illegal in their life for a gun they can't take out and enjoy.

If anyone reading this wants to illegally create a MG I recommend you go rent a MG and get the novelty out of your system. Its not worth the hassle.

[Assassin42]

Definitely agree to that one.

[Assassin42]

Anyone with the skill level to build a legal SA MG42 has the skill set to build a FA one. Why would anyone want that level of illegal in their life for a gun they can't take out and enjoy.

I unfortunately have served with guys that would try. Yes, they were the full on stereotype hill billy. One of them bragged about taking a .50cal musket, cut it down to a pistol, loaded it with a rifle load, and gave it a try. Just to see what would happen. I'm sure everyone can guess what happened. He ended up on his rear and missing teeth. I am willing to bet that large amounts of alcohol were involved.

[42rocker]

If you have an interest in a parts kit, here is one being sold in Minnesota with sear and bolt and all other fa parts.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =247219325

Later 42rocker

[Assassin42]

Wish I had the cash to get it. Would be a good start on the parts count. But don't want the FA parts though.

[12thWaffenSS]

Just buy a semi-auto gun and be done with it.

[Assassin42]

If I wanted just to have an MG-42, yes I would try to buy it outright.

But that isn't the only reason. I want one that I personally built. Something that I can show my kids and say I built that. Something I can pass on to them that has more meaning than some car or garage. I saw it mentioned in another thread, it isn't just about owning one it is about the build.

Mine would be the first of several. The next one would probably be for a buddy of mine that is quadriplegic. Even though he has been in a wheelchair for most of his life now he still goes out shooting. His build will most likely be without a butt stock and have a couple modifications to fit the rig he uses with his firearms. I most likely will be the main person on that build.

I'm not doing this because I saw one built on some TV show and said "cool I want one of those". It is also a heritage thing for me. I had relatives that served in the Wehrmacht in WW1 and WW2. With at least one dying in a Russian prison camp after the war. I also had relatives that served in the US military during the same time periods. There are other German military arms I would love to have, and received approval for from Household 6. Just have to find the ones I want at a reasonable price.

Would a full auto MG-42 be neat to have, yes it would. But I don't need one. It would cost me way too much in ammo. The semi-auto will do just fine.

[12thWaffenSS]

You have a pm.

[Assassin42]

Got the job and will hopeful be able to start buying parts and the needed manuals soon.

I am guessing that the blueprints for the build will probably come with the receiver halves (depending on the company)?