BUNKER MOUNT

[LA MITRAILLE]

Hello,

Having lost the battle of 1870 / 1871, my region was annexed by German until 1918 they built of numerous barracks, in particular in the city of Metz, as well as forts to protect their new border.
I present you here one of the special mount of fortress for MG 08 who equipped one of the forts of the belt of Metz







It was made in 1913 by AWS....



Best regards
david

[IMBLITZVT]

Very cool item! I don't think any of these made their way back to the US. What does something like that go for over there? I would think it would be worth between $2k-$5k here.

What did the bunker look like that it came out of?

[dwmmg08]

Wow, that's really cool! I'd love to see how that would have worked in the bunker. So what was your local regiment?

[MarkFinneran]

Superb piece - i hope it is not sitting on the wife's freezer!!

How did you get this under your coat on exitting the fort David? Has anyone any original photos of this sort of arrangement?

Mark

[Bil]

Yes.Yes I do. ---bil

[Bil]

And Here they are!

[Scotty]

This is an awesome mount! I have never seen anything like it.

[dwmmg08]

*Ahem* (clearing throat)

Ah, Bil, that's a very nice photograph of an MG08 with a standard sled mount, having been built into a position where it's set up on a wooden turntable, I believe this is exactly the same way that you'd use this bunker mount, but that's not exactly the same mount...

That said, I love that picture! I have seen some great big versions of it, I'm still trying to figure out what unit that was! Neat stuff in there, from the oil can to the Kugel Grenaten!

Glen

[Bil]

I was fooled by the adjustment arrangement in the rear,and didn't look closely! I will have to look some more! ---bil

[LA MITRAILLE]

As I said, in my region, there is a great deal of forts built by German before the Great War....
Below, a German map with the position of these forts, as well as their German names.




Forts depended on regiments of infantry as well as regiments or company of machine gunners of fortress (FMGA, festung maschinen gewehr abteilung) and (FMGK, festung mashinengewehr company)
The forts of Metz depended:
FMGA 12 to 15
Regiment of infantry: IR 98, 130, 144, 145.

Photo of the special knot for the 14th compagny, of infantry regiment. Its' the compagny of the fortress machin gunner (in white, beggining of war and in grey, middle since end of war)


Machine gunners' dog tags of fortress of Metz




This below, in the fort of Mutzig in Alsace...



I also have the 2 legs but it's difficult for showing the mount...

This below, nowadays, it stays a lot of MG's binker mount in position; the top was destroyed by scrap merchant after the war.








I hope that now, you can better understand what is a forteress mount...
Best regards
david

[IMBLITZVT]

David,

That is very very interesting. What a great place to live! (well at least now )

I would be interested in one of these mounts even if it did not have the cradle and elevation gear box. I can find those items in the US. Of course shipping would be a killer...

Damn scrappers... They destroy so much for so little money!

[dwmmg08]

Wow, interesting pictures! Is it legal to steal/ scrap the stuff from the forts? I'd love to have a mount like that myself. So you couldn't pull the gun back in, like a dissappearing gun, it's just sticking out all the time, interesting!

I wonder where the guns all got to? I'm sure they all got accounted for, but....

Glen

[dwmmg08]

I hate that the forts have been torn up like that, it would have been way cooler to see them in better shape. Scrappers are a horrible problem here too, I think they'll steal anything not welded down!

[MarkFinneran]

Great item.
If we assume all bunker mounts had their own sled mount elevating gears attached - think how many sled mounts must have been broken up to supply the bunker pattern, across all borders, unless deep in a cellar all the remaining 'bodies' were kept in storage!!!
My other question is that again after WWI assuming the fort and all fittings were intact what was its state before WWII and then after?
Would most of the 'kit' have been removed prior to WWII for emergency metal scrap, or has the damage occurred post WWII.

Either way i am off to France now in my car armed with a large screw driver before Glen and Matt make a trip!
Mark

[LA MITRAILLE]

Hello,

To answer your questions, the first mount of fortress will be built with the arrival of the MG 01; on the wood of my mount, there are still the old fixing holes of the old méchanism, as on the old sledmount



...... the mechanical part of the carriage of fortress is different from that of the sledmount, they have nothing to do! I found my mechanism at a scrap merchant, it results from a sledmount's carriage which is a little wider than it should be!



After the first world war, German's fort were got back by the French army which kept them as deposit. It is that long after the second world war, in the 50s, that they were clattered....
One of the forts of Metz, was the theater of violent fights in 1944 between German soldiers and American (5th DIUS). It is fort Driant!!!!

Best regards
David

[IMBLITZVT]

David,

Very interesting!

So MG01s were there first. Its interesting that they would have been mounted in forts that early before they "knew" how to use MGs in warfare. I guess they learned a fair amount from the Russo-Japanese War.

I am not sure I understood what you were talking about when you said " , it results from a sledmount's carriage which is a little wider than it should be!". I also did not understand exactly what I was looking at in the last picture.

Great item! You better get in that car Mark!

[amafrank]

My father was involved in clearing the forts and building bridges in Metz in '44 as part of the 1271st combat engineers btn. He never spoke much about the fighting other than to say it was fierce. Metz, Nancy, Bitche...... as well as parts of the Maginot line which had to be cleared of german troops and mines etc...
one of the few things I got him to tell me is that he checked bridges for demolition charges before they allowed any traffic...not a fun job.
Neat to see some of these forts and sad to see the current state. We seem to have such a poor appreciation for history as a group.

Frank

[LA MITRAILLE]

On the last picture, i show a mg 08' sledmount fastener (in my hand), and under you have the bunker's mount fastener which is more little than the 08's sledmount.....

Hope you understand now?

Best regards
david

[IMBLITZVT]

Yes I understand now.

Hey did you just get a MG08/15 bipod (early style) from a guy in England?

[LA MITRAILLE]

Yes I understand now.

Hey did you just get a MG08/15 bipod (early style) from a guy in England?

No , but i have one since a long time......

Regards
david