Oel and Petroleum Can Markings?

[ChrisPCook]

What marking are correct wartime markings, and which are postwar, I think a lot of these cans that are postwar may be passed off as wartime with a little paint. I have seen the Oel cans, but would an Ol can (with two dots above the O) also be correct? I guess a lot of these also went to German satellite allies during the war, with Romanian cans being marked Oleo and Petroleo? If anyone can help me get this straight before I purchase some that would be great, also what is the current market like for these (i.e.- a good price to pay)? Chris....

[bigd]

Hi,
Oleo/petroleo were issued to the Portuguese. As far as I can see oel/petroleum are the markings for German cans. Sometimes if you look on either side of where the handle attaches to the can you may well see the 3 letter code. Portuguese screw lids have a non solid lid if that makes sense, they have cut outs in the lid itself.
D.

[phil_uk]

Hello,

I recently purchased a Russian captured German ww2 P-Tin set which contains both of the cans you mension, the first one being one which has a seperate plate riveted onto the handle of the can with the words as follows: M.G.OEL., this also has a small waa stamp in the bottom left corner of the plate, stating WAA542, The second can has the impressed words directly onto the handle stating: PETROLEUM, and also on the side of the handle opposite to the spout has the impressed three letter manufacturer code stating: CjS, this also has a small waa stamp directly under the code marking but i cannot see what waa code it is due to the Russian green over paint, i may strip this paint back in order to read the waa code, Both these cans came housed within a Genuine German 250rnd ammo box and on top of the ammo can has the impressed waa code of, WAA21, i Checked the waa codes and they are genuine german ones, hope this info is ok.

[MG34Biker]

Look under the handle to see if there are any former stampings under the rivetted plate. Somebody may have installed a counterfeit data plate on a Yugo oil can to increase the price.

[ChrisPCook]

thanks guys, lots of good info to keep from buying a faked up Yugo can...what is a good price to pay for a pair of original cans (cans themselves w/o the Ptin MG34/42 can)? Thanks, Chris...

[phil_uk]

no previous markings under the plate, as i stated i have a Russian Captured set, which was captured and repainted and stored by the russians in ww2, there is now a large flood of captured german military items now being released from russia,I also bought 2x 250rnd german dated and waa marked ammo tins from the same supplier for £35 a piece, they still contain 5x original german dated and waa marked ammo belts and a dated and waa marked starter tab, they are even still in storage grease, my p-tin set cost me £65 which is not bad at all to say the cans are original german ww2, the only downside to it is the russian green overpaint on the cans and tins.

[Reichpapers]

no previous markings under the plate, as i stated i have a Russian Captured set, which was captured and repainted and stored by the russians in ww2, there is now a large flood of captured german military items now being released from russia,I also bought 2x 250rnd german dated and waa marked ammo tins from the same supplier for £35 a piece, they still contain 5x original german dated and waa marked ammo belts and a dated and waa marked starter tab, they are even still in storage grease, my p-tin set cost me £65 which is not bad at all to say the cans are original german ww2, the only downside to it is the russian green overpaint on the cans and tins.

Are you sure these are from a Russian source? International Military Antiques (IMA) have sold these sets for years…German cans with 5 belts caked in grease. The belief has always been that these cans were over painted green by the Yugoslavians, not the Russians.

[phil_uk]

Yes these are from a well known source imported from russia, all captured from the germans during the battles of ww2 and repainted and stored in underground salt mines in russia until now

[Reichpapers]

By any chance, is this the color green over paint you are referign to?

[longhorn109]

phil_uk where did you get your stuff from?

[phil_uk]

Hi,

no the green is russian green on my tins etc,i do beleive the green you are talking about is yugo puke green, the tins etc are no were near like the green in your pic, its its a cross between olive drab and apple green il post some pics, hi Longhorn i got some of my russian captured sets from the following websites http://www.rytonarms.co.uk and saracen exports they are the main importer of the captured german stocks from russia

[Reichpapers]

All I’m seeing on Ryton Arms site is Yugo green (and it’s various shades). Last piece of German equipment that I knew to have come out of Russia was the 34 Lafette mounts sold to Omega from Ryton Arms. They still maintained their original grey paint. Personally, I don’t see where the Russians would have had a need to repaint the German equipment if it was laid up in a salt mine. Let alone bother with painting cans. The Yugo’s on the other hand, did, as they used the equipment. I’m still not convinced. I think this needs a bit more speculation, as collectors fancy where items originate from. The theme of Russian origin throws what we know out of whack.. Then again, whether it was repainted by Yugoslavians or Russians is mute, they’re still an over painted piece. Don’t mean to press the issue, but I want a little more solid info before I change what we currently know.

[Pug42]

I have seen and handled all the stuff from Ryton Arms that Phil is describing, all of it is in my opinion genuine WW2 manufacture with overpaint that certainly isn't Yugo, and is the classic Russian Olive Green. Rytons are a reputable firm and do source a lot of stuff from Russia and distribute it through the trade here (and indeed in the States as well I believe). If they have Yugo stuff they describe it as such, so I have no reason to doubt the provenance? To be honest it might be any of a number of former Warsaw Pact states that did the paint job, but the tins are genuine, all the small details (not just the stamps) add up.

I bought some 50 round ammo drums in a blued finish, didn't buy any of the other painted stuff as I couldn't be bothered to strip and repaint... plus I have too may ammo tins etc already

[Reichpapers]

Before I continue, and to avoid any confusion...I'm not saying these relics are not authentic WWII German. I am just questioning the source country who stored them over the years. Perhaps it would help if someone could post a comparative pic of what Russian green is compared to Yugoslavian green. I am somewhat confused here...the pics on Rytons site look Yugo green to me. It would be nice to establish what color we are talking about here.

[Volkssturm45]

Having bought most of the above mentioned items myself and my general hanging around the militaria scene in the UK. I can add further weight that these are indeed ex Russian stock being imported by the likes of 'Ryton arms' back into the UK. Just about every piece that comes back from the Russian arsenals has been over painted with classic Russian Olive green paint and certainly NOT Yugo apple green. My own metal basket carry frame set was over painted and the blued/blacked 50rd MG drums had dabs of black laquer where rust was forming along a few edges.
We've got hundreds of K98 being imported and again refurbished with varnished stocks and all the metal parts blacked. MG34's are now returning to the market in numbers again from the same source. Some of the above are believed to have been collected from Stalingrad and put into storage from then.

[phil_uk]

well spoken Volkssturm45, i didnt have the energy to explain again, thanks

[Reichpapers]

Ok, I get it, collectors in the UK like Ryton Arms. Please, no more testimonials. Just do me a favor…buy the item, not the story. I just hope Ryton isn’t using the Russian line as a selling point. Regretfully, the militaria industry is rather shady, rivaled only in underhandedness (made that up) by gun dealers at gun shows.

Looking back, it was silly for me to even bring up the point, as who painted them is irrelevant and adds no value to the piece, whether painted by Stalin or Tito himself. To avoid further argument, it might be safe to refer to all green over paints as Eastern Block green. This way we will avoid having to call all green painted items purchased in the UK as Russia capture, and our US purchases as Yugoslavian capture.

I’m in the opinion that the various greens we are arguing all originate from the same color green, they just vary depending on what that unit or country decided to dilute it with, what base primer or under color was present, or what tint was close enough.

I'd really like to believe you guys. I personally don't really care where the stuff came from. What I don't want to see is a 360 change of what is currently accepted because of one dealers buzz words.

This thread is starting to sound tlike the Patronenkasten thread from a while back.

[Bil]

So are you saying the stuff I paid primo price for WASN'T actually painted by Stalin himself??Boy,now I really feel bad! Actually,it should really matter what the color was originally,not what it is now,although the chain of ownership is interesting.I really don't think the Russians marked where the piece was captured,just that it was. ---bil

[phil_uk]

yeah true, and at the end of the day the items are still german ww2 made

[Volkssturm45]

yeah true, and at the end of the day the items are still german ww2 made

Exactly...............just a bloody pain in the arse, removing that Eastern block green paint