Value of an SS double decal helmet?

[Demontrooper]

Hey Guys!
So I know that not everyone here is a collector of German militaria, but alot of us are; thats for sure. Not all of us are members of the axis history forum either, so I figured I would post the question here. What is the value of an SS double decal helmet? The liner is in great condition; markings are clear, and the helmet looks like it went through a war (normal wear; rust, etc.) I can post pics if someone requests it; but I just want your quick input; what would you pay; or what do you think (know) one is worth.

Here is a link to the thread and pics, for us axis history members.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 56#1099756

Thanks guys!
-Mike

[gdmoore28]

Mike,

I sold a helmet for a friend of mine some time back that had a liner exactly like the one in your helmet. According to one of the guys at GermanHelmets.com, it was an after-war replacement liner from one of the Euro countries that used the German helmets for their own forces. Can't remember the country.

In addition, the paint under the liner just looks too new compared to the rest of the helmet. Doesn't that look like sanding marks running along the shell just above the liner? The wear pattern doesn't look natural.

The exterior of the helmet, though, is a different story. If somebody attempted to "fake" a DD SS helmet, they did an excellent job. So, that throws a wrench into the "fake" theory. Maybe somebody repainted the interior when the liner was replaced?
(By the way, look at the split pin heads on the outside of the helmet. They have been crushed while being re-inserted when the liner was replaced, further indication that the liner is not original.)

So, now that I've totally confused the issue, what about value?

IF the helmet exterior is all original, I would estimate that in it's current state of semi-restoration, the helmet would be worth approx $1,000 to $1200.

IF the exterior is a high-class fake, it would still be worth in the $250 range.

I think it is out of the question that the helmet is all original, because the helmet liner is definitely post-war. But, if it WERE all original, it would easily bring $5000.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert. I'm a hobbiest/collector who has tried to educate myself on the basics of helmet value. So my estimate is worth what it cost you. Others are free to disagree.

The advice you recieved to ask the guys at GermanHelmets.com is right on. They definitely ARE the experts.

Hope this helps.

GeeDeeEmm

[KSH67]

Run screaming from that helmet. It is as fake as they come. The metal shell may be wartime and the liner too but that paint and those decals aren't. I've been collecting german helmets for more than 30 years and that is not even a fair repro.
Kevin

[Demontrooper]

Just to put it out there; this helmet is part of the collection belonging to John Barrett; who started collecting back when you could buy Mp40's for $15, and founded the Michigan Military Museum; and now is selling off his collection. I bought a mint Mp44 dummy gun from him. He told me that he bought this helmet from a vet in the '60s. While I am not saying this to validate the helmets authenticity; I would appreciate thorough explanation. Also, a reference photo would be awesome. Kevin, I would appreciate you follow through; you know much more about this stuff than I do!

Also; I really do not want to get into huge debate about authenticity; I am concerned about a value of a real double decal SS helmet. If the owner of this helmet (Mr. Barrett) knows that this helmet is authentic and wants to sell it as one; even if bad photo quality alters the color of the paint, etc.

[gdmoore28]

Hi Mike,

Value of an authentic, double-decal, intact SS helmet w/provinance:

" . . . pushing $10,000 . . . . "

Source: http://ww2germanhelmets.com/German-Worl ... -Sold.html

Hope this helps. If I can find any other references, I'll pass them along.

GeeDeeEmm

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I wouldn't even think about buying an SS ANYTHING because of all the well made fakes that are out there. Hope the one you are looking at is not a fake.

[KSH67]

Just to put it out there; this helmet is part of the collection belonging to John Barrett; who started collecting back when you could buy Mp40's for $15, and founded the Michigan Military Museum; and now is selling off his collection. I bought a mint Mp44 dummy gun from him. He told me that he bought this helmet from a vet in the '60s. While I am not saying this to validate the helmets authenticity; I would appreciate thorough explanation. Also, a reference photo would be awesome. Kevin, I would appreciate you follow through; you know much more about this stuff than I do!
.

That's no problem, I hear this all the time. In the area of WWII German collecting nobody and I mean nobody is an expert in all areas. You can't be, there are way too many variables to be. I am not saying anything disparaging about Mr. Barrett whatsoever, many people have items in their collections that they are 100% on that are not right, no matter what they think. I have had vets swear they brought items back but they were the worst repros ever and lots of these guys bought them from the 50's to now.

Let's not even look at the decals right now, which are not even good fakes. Let's look at the paint and condition of the shell. First off orange colored rust is a really bad sign unless you just dug this out of a swamp somewhere. Dark brown patina is what you should see on the paint free areas. Not to say you will never see a small spot that might have a little orange, but that is small percent not most of the exposed shell. Second, thickness of the paint is an issue. Where the paint is scraped away or missing, it seems really thin. Generally speaking an M40 shell should have a pretty thick coat of paint, so that if there were a chipped, scraped or otherwise damaged section you would actually see a step up from the metal to the edge of the paint. This shell looks artificially distressed, as if someone has sanded it bare in spots. http://www.german-helmets.com/SS%20Helm ... PHOTOS.htm Look at these photos on German Helmets . com to see what I'm talking about. That is an original DD SS Helmet and is about as smooth as you will see for paint on this style. WHich brings me to the next thing that is missing, the texture. This shell should have textured paint, granted some M40s paint is very fine texture (like the one in the link) it should still have soem texture to it. While you are there look at the decals here: http://www.german-helmets.com/DECALS-WAFFEN-SS.htm
these are all original decals. The helmet you have pictured has first pattern style runes but the placement, rune shape and shield shape are not right to me. Take that helmet Mr. Barrett has out in the sun, that SS decal should sparkle brilliantly, not just slight reflection but it should be like a cusom metalflake paint job. Here are a couple pics of original decals that help illustrate what I am talking about. These are not my helmets but known originals from the collection of Darryl Pajot.



You'll do what you want, but I would stay away from that shell. If you find an original SS helmet it will cost a lot of cash. 5-10K is no problem. If you find one you are really interested in get it authenticated by one of the major helmet guys. Look at all the angles, there are a lot of parts that can give you clues if it is right or not. There are so many excellent reproductions out there.
Kevin

[smoggle]

Heck for 10-12K I would rather spend it on a class III weapon. That you can use. A helmet? I couldn't justify that.

[KSH67]

Yeah, but there are some benefits, for instance there's less of a chance that the government is going to take away your rights to own rare helmets and you don't need to pay any special taxes or get approval from anyone to buy them.