Hirtenberger Patronen, Austria, '80s, FMJ

[nick1]

Hey anyone shoot this. I hear that its not the most accurate stuff . That at 100 yards its 4-5 inches off axis. But . . .
has anyone shot it out of a MG42.

Just curious?

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Never seen any of that ammo before. However, if you want to send me LOTS of samples to try out, I'm game..

[maxposner]

If you have a source for 7.62 Hirtenberger, I would be interested.

[JBaum]

Different brands of ammo are loaded to different specs, sometimes individual shells are slightly short or over loaded. That's why it takes at least 5 shots to get a center point for adjusting sights. The specs are different for 7.62x51 and .308.

Bullet speed is directly related to the impact point at a particular distance. If the bullet is faster than what the sights are set up for, the bullet arrives at the target before it has time to drop (by gravity) the amount that the sights are set for. If the bullet is slower, it can drop more than figured into the sights, and the shot comes out low.

Generally at 100 yards, large caliber bullets are still on the rising part of the trajectory arc (relative to the straight line view of the sights). For a particular ammo, it may be necessary to adjust your sights to a different distance for accuracy with a particular powder load/bullet weight. The powder load and bullet weight (among other things like barrel length) determine bullet speed. What is accurate in a 16" barrel won't have the same impact point with a 20" barrel. In this case, faster bullets=high shots, slower bullets=low shots. For every second that a bullet is in flight, it is pulled downward by gravity by 32 feet. If you're shooting a long distance and the bullet is in flight for 1 second, the bullet needs to be pretty high on its high point of the flight path in order to hit the target. During that time, crosswind also blows the bullet sideways. A 10 mph wind (barely noticeable), can blow the bullet 14.6 feet sideways per second of flight time. If the bullet flies even for 1/2 a second, that's still 7+ feet off target. If a bullet is traveling at 2,500 feet per second, and you're shooting 1,250 feet (400+ yards), the bullet takes 1/2 second to arrive at the target. A lot of things can influence the bullet path in that time. Air density (humidity, elevation, barometric pressure, and temperature) all affect the amount of resistance the bullet encounters on its flight, thus it's flight time to target. And don't forget the wind speed and direction relative to the flight path.

For serious long distance shooting (800 yds +), a bullet trajectory program with necessary windage, humidity, temperature, barometric pressure and elevation data is required. Shooting up hill or down hill increases the flight time of the bullet to target, since the long side of a triangle is longer than the base line to the target. This is why correct distance to the target from the shooting position, rather than simply "target distance" is required. Distance measuring equipment for targets at 800+ yards gets expensive (theodolite), but makes the difference between a hit and a miss. Everything is exaggerated by distance, so the further you shoot, the more the external influences can make a difference.

A 1 minute of angle gun (generally considered very accurate) isn't good enough for really long shots at a small target. 1 minute of angle is 1/60th of a degree. 1 minute of angle is roughly 1 inch at 100 yards (1.047" at 100 yards, if you really must know), but at 800 yards, you could be off by about 8 and a half inches, and that's provided you have all the other variables exactly correct and the ammo is consistent (real world=it isn't going to happen). If the target is gone after the first shot (coyote, prairie dog, or people shooting at you), the first shot is all you get.

In short, the gun needs to be sighted in for the specific ammo used. There is no other way to assure accuracy. "But it's a .308 and the sights were set for .308" doesn't work. Even different lot numbers of the same brand of ammo could have been made with different age powders, different powder burn rates, slightly different brass (different internal volume=different gas pressures=different bullet speeds), slightly different primers, slightly out of round bullets, bullet designs (boat tail, flat tail, round nose, hollow point, wad cutter, lead core, steel core, all change the ballistic coefficient of flight = wind resistance), all of which can affect bullet speed and accuracy. There's a lot of science involved to get a bullet on target at any but the shortest distances.

Well, I haven't done that in a while.... it's like stretching after sitting for a couple hours.... felt good! The regulars here will know what I mean.

Now, what was your question again? hahahahhahaha

[propos]

Very informative answer, Herr Doktor jbaum.

[JBaum]

Oh yeah, I remember now. Hirtenberger. Yup, I've run hundreds of rounds through my MG42. Runs great, but at 25 shots a second, I can't exactly say it's an inch or two higher or lower than anything else. If you have a source for less than 40 cents a shot, buy it. You can always hold a little low on the sights if necessary. I don't expect to see ammunition prices fall anytime soon, alright, forget about soon, I don't expect to see them fall.