MG42 Propane Gun Build

Post by **gdmoore28** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:21 pm

Hi Village,

Welcome to the board! Thanks for your comments. I hope you can benefit from my successes and failures in this project. This M53 will be the prototype. As soon as I have this one operational I'll start on another one.

I'm hoping to get a final "shell" receiver pattern constructed so that I can have it replicated by a professional metal shop for my future builds, as I hope to construct several of these if the first two turn out well. Before I have some receiver blanks made up I'll be sure to post here in case you or anybody else wants one, too.

Stay tuned. I'm about to get on this again now that the holidays are over.

GeeDeeEmm

Post by **gdmoore28** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:44 am

The "rivet" locations were marked using a real receiver for reference, then the indentations were made using a simple Vice Grip grommet installation tool. The holes can now be drilled in the center of the indentations. These holes will be used to locate mounting hardware inside the receiver for the combustion chamber, solenoids, and other components.

Next up: fabricating a ratchet plate; and fabricating a new mounting system for the buttstock that will eliminate the entire buffer assembly. This will provide more space inside the receiver.

Post by **Bil** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:26 am

This is the first time I really looked at your build-this is great!Look forward to more! A new side to things. ---bil

Post by **gdmoore28** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:07 pm

Thank you, fine sir!

Post by **Demontrooper** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:54 am

Thanks gdmoore for your hard work.... I tried explaining what you have done with the rear receiver a long time ago with theory since I have little time to work with anything other than get my gun finished into semi.... I got into huge arguments about the applicability of theoretical homebuilt MG42 receivers in dummy guns, gas guns, and even fireing weapons, and you have been able to prove that theory.... So for anybody out there wondering... Yes you can build sheet metal receivers for non-firing applications....

Awesome work man! I love it...

Post by **gdmoore28** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:18 pm

I'm very appreciative of your compliments. Positive input from one's peers is a strong elixer that spurs me onward. I can't wait to get my workshop built so I can have some actual tools and equipment to work with.

Thanks again, my friend!

GeeDeeEmm

Post by **Blanksguy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:03 am

Have you had any chance to contact people about the "circuit-board"....fittings, hoses, and tanks yet (?)...what do the current prices for these look like (?)

Do you have any contacts for any of the above required parts (?)

Last.....at $15 (if I remember the price correctly), I don't believe that you could go wrong with a BRP "full-dimple" ratchet-plate.

Regards, RichardS.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

Post by **Bil** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:12 pm

Garry-went through your whole thread again-more closely.Also looked at the Washington guys stuff.I dont want to re-invent the wheel,just an idea to look at. I use several propane-operated nail guns made by Paslode.If you have already investigated them,stop reading here...They operats on smaller propane cylinders,and are really small 2 cyche engines.They have electronics,a small spark plug,an re-coil.I'm not sure how fast they cycle,just how fast I can nail.they have a small fan inside to clear the chamber of un-spent fumes,and are of a sleeve-valve design,sort of like the old Willys-Knight,only simpler.I am thinking there might be some parts or info you could use there.It looks like you have it figured out already,and I look forward to further progress.Some of the early pics didnt seem to post-is it possible to post them again?Looking good!! ---bil

Post by **gdmoore28** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:24 pm

Blanksguy Wrote:

Have you had any chance to contact people about the "circuit-board"....fittings, hoses, and tanks yet (?)...what do the current prices for these look like (?)

Do you have any contacts for any of the above required parts (?)

*******************

The source for the circuit board and solenoids is in Memphis, and price is about $165 the last time I checked:
steveleesmith@hotmail.com

********************

Bil wrote:

I use several propane-operated nail guns made by Paslode.If you have already investigated them,stop reading here...They operats on smaller propane cylinders,and are really small 2 cyche engines.They have electronics,a small spark plug,an re-coil.I'm not sure how fast they cycle,just how fast I can nail.they have a small fan inside to clear the chamber of un-spent fumes,and are of a sleeve-valve design,sort of like the old Willys-Knight,only simpler.I am thinking there might be some parts or info you could use there

********************

Bil,
I was hoping somebody might come up with an alternate idea for firing these propane guns with smaller components than currrently used. The bane of these setups so far has been having to carry a backpak and/or ammo box to house some of the components. I want to find some way to house everything inside the enlarged receiver housing. I've been looking into using the smaller canisters as "plug-in" fuel supplies, but haven't had a chance yet to start the experimentation. Another fellow suggested actually constructing dual-cell fuel tanks that would fit inside the receiver and accept refills. I'd love to find a way to do this without the oxygen tank. Maybe the guns will offer a clue. I'll be looking into Paslode guns. Thanks for suggesting them. I'll be checking out every lead that anybody can offer for miniaturizing these components.

Concerning the pics -- for some reason almost all of my previous pics were dropped. I've reloaded most of the relevant ones. If I get some spare time I'll reload some others.

GeeDeeEmm

Post by **88comm** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:31 pm

The paslode cylinders should work. I would be tempted to avoid oxygen all together and just use air. Some type of reed valve for air into the cylinder might be enough for the air charge. Look into the operation of the German pulse jet. They used it on the V-1 rockets in WW2. Very few moving parts and the exhaust would be moving out the muzzle, causing the low pressure needed to draw the fresh air charge into the chamber. A regulator of some kind on the gas and a control for the spark frequency and you're set. Everything COULD be onboard.
You would need to think about airflow around the plus jet, as it would get hot in a hurry. real recoil however. maybe even 1200 rpms (rounds per minute)
Show it to the local constables though when you're done. Don't want to have them see you with it and shoot you

Get this worked out and you have something to sell to the movie people....

Post by **gdmoore28** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:28 am

88comm--

More great ideas. Can't thank you enough. Getting these propane guns simplified so that everything is housed inside the receiver will be a major improvement in the current setup. Get the configuration right, and one could pop off the buttstock, screw in a propane cylinder and go. Run out of fuel and repeat the process.

Keep the creative juices flowing and let me know what else may be workable here.

GeeDeeEmm

Post by **gdmoore28** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:59 am

I was keeping my little four-year-old granddaughter this afternoon and decided to do a little work on the propane gun. She gets a real kick out of "helping" me work on the MG42. She equips herself with some pliers, a screwdriver, and a brass hammer and goes to work on whatever scrap parts I have lying around. A perfect playtime.

No self-respecting propane gun can be without its drum because the drum simply offers too much space for electronics, solenoids, etc.. So the project today was modifying and mounting the feed tray so that the drum can be mounted.

My constant concern continues to be preserving as much space inside the "receiver" as possible. Because the feed tray occupies several inches of space beneath the top cover, I decided to modify it so that it does not intrude inside the receiver.

The pictures below show the process and the outcome of today's efforts.

Post by **gdmoore28** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:10 am

Because my shop hasn't been built yet, my little Dremel tool has become my most-used tool, and my lap has been transformed into my workbench! This is the first time in my life that I've been without a nicely-equipped workshop, and the frustration level is rising. Borrowing other people's tools and shopspace is the pits. How nice it will be to once again be able to leave a project at night and take up in the same spot the next morning. Ahhhh, one day soon....

The modified feed tray section will be tack welded to the top cover in order to keep it properly alligned and out of the way when the top cover is removed. I've also removed a very narrow section of the right side of the feedtray that will be tacked in place in the window of the right side of the cover. (Camera batteries went down on me while trying to film the right side. I'll picture it later.)

Post by **gdmoore28** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:18 am

The presence of the modified feed tray sections will just add a little more realism to the finished 42. Once the receiver is blackened, the receiver area behind the feed tray section will become largely "invisible."

Here's the completed left side feed tray section in place.

Post by **gdmoore28** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:25 am

Taking the photo from this angle had the effect of "blacking out" the unfinished receiver section and gives a little better idea of how it will look with a little color in it's cheeks.

'Nuff for now. Thanks for tuning in.

Post by **Bil** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:31 am

Garry-does the feed tray also tilt up with the cover?Is the drum attached to the gun or does it also tilt?It looks like you are coming along nicely.It is fun to have a 'little' help ,too.My kids used to like that,and it gives them an early interest in mechanical things. ---bil

Post by **gdmoore28** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:03 am

Hey Bil--

What are you doing up this late?

I re-read my post and realized that I didn't make myself perfectly clear on the feed tray setup. Yes, it will be tack welded to the top cover so that it pivots up when the cover is RAISED -- not "removed" as I said in the post. The idea is to keep it attached to the top cover so that it goes up out of the way with the cover when I'm serviceing the components inside.

GeeDeeEmm

Post by **Bil** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:05 pm

Garry-I'm in California,so it isnt too late here.I dont think I'm allowed to look at pictures of real machine guns here-must be some law.So I limit myself to the gas guns and funny videos till I get back home !!

---bil

Post by **gdmoore28** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:44 pm

Found a decent little video of a propane gun in action in Great Britain -- and displaying all the shortcomings that I'd like to find solutions to. Specifically-- lame sound (too quiet, too high-pitched); no recoil (yucchhh!); misfiring (this is ususally due to firing bursts way too long -- the combustion chamber starts to literally wheeze like an an asthmatic needing a hit on his inhaler).

Still, fun video to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741S0xTfLEc

Course, the best video I've seen so far of a properly functioning and properly used propane gun (along with a FA MG42 blank-firer) has already been posted on this site, but some of the newcomers may not have seen it:

http://reenactor.se/kvi1_0001.wmv

GeeDeeEmm

Post by **Bil** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:22 pm

Garry-thanks for the link.Why does the flash seem to come out below the barrel? Is it an illusion,or is this how that particular gun is built? Also,is yours going to be like that? I got the impression that you were using a tube in the barrel position. ---bil