Japanese Type 1 (Type 98/MG-15 clone) reactivated

[sbl11]

It actually got fairly costly....so methinks that some other Japanese machine gun collector might have eyed it too.The description says that it came out of a Betty bomber, but does not mention a specific gun that it was from. I'm sure that it probably came out of a bomber gun position, but whether it was a Betty is questionable. Heck, like every Japanese fighter seemed to referred to as a Zero, I think that the same could be said for the Bombers being identified as Betty's.

I haven't run across any guns with a matching serial number to that stamped in the sight, but still have to check the Type 1 Dual guns (aka type 100). I do not think that these were used by the Japanese navy type 1's, or later Army type 1's for two reasons:

1st- the Arsenal markings show them being proofed at Nagoya

2nd- the sights were swapped on the type 1 guns( i.e. the ring sight would be out front.)

I'll still look into, but I have not seen any type 1 (mg-15clone) with this set up.

-seth

[IMBLITZVT]

You bastage!! I am -SO- jealous........

Send it to me, I will make sure you don't lose it. ;-)

-TomH

Here you go Tom. Don't know for sure its a type 98 but its listed as one...



http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =289165602

[TactAdv]

Type 89. .....wish it was for a 98!! Neat folding mechanism, though. :-)

[IMBLITZVT]

Damn, I just was reading some of this thread and had the gun on my mind and saw what I wanted to see... Oh well.

[sbl11]

That's a pretty rare sight! Wish I had a type 89!

-seth

[sbl11]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-JAPANESE-A ... 500wt_1413


I wonder if the Germans made these for them too?

[bmg17a1]

Type 89 was made as a single, and a twin, and there were two types of 89s, but they are a unique Japanese MGs, neither type made by any other country. One type takes a 1/3 of a circle shaped drum and the other uses a drum much like the Vickers AFV LMG, similar to the Lewis drum.

Bob

[TactAdv]

Type 89 was made as a single, and a twin, and there were two types of 89s, but they are a unique Japanese MGs, neither type made by any other country. One type takes a 1/3 of a circle shaped drum and the other uses a drum much like the Vickers AFV LMG, similar to the Lewis drum.

Bob

So then.....how many Type 89's do you have?? ;-)

-TomH

[sbl11]

haha, I was jokingly referring to the dark bakelite "late war" muzzle cover for the type99 rifle that is posted on eBay.
-seth

[sbl11]

The National Museum of the Marine Corps was very generous in a request for photographs of any Japanese copies of the German mg-15. The following are of those in the collection and not on display.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us




Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[sbl11]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Type 1 (Army)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[TactAdv]

That Type 1/II is pretty close to my serial number......interesting. Would seem to indicate the change to the front jacket cooling holes vs, slots occurred over a small serial number range.....Also, I am starting to believe that ALL Yokosuka Type 1's retained the wooden rear receiver cover over the whole production run???

-TomH

[sbl11]

Also, I am starting to believe that ALL Yokosuka Type 1's retained the wooden rear receiver cover over the whole production run???

Tom,

You say that as if you don't already think that of all japanese production of type98's or type 1's??? Why just the Yokosuka type 1's? I definitely don't disagree, but that statement seems to indicate that some question has risen elsewhere in these variants as to another possibility for the rears.

P.S.

Don't Forget that the variants of the type 1 do not for the most part occur during the same year of production. I only know of ONE type 1(army) that has a 1944 date, all others are 1945 dated, regardless of how close the serial numbers place them. That means that they are of an entire new production run that started from 1 all over again and worked its way up! So be careful not to confuse your gun with the characteristics of one made in an entirely different year at what is now thought to be an entirely different arsenal.
-seth

[TactAdv]

You say that as if you don't already think that of all japanese production of type98's or type 1's???

Just testing your reaction time.....impact to detonation......you pass. ;-)

I only know of ONE type 1(army) that has a 1944 date, all others are 1945 dated, regardless of how close the serial numbers place them.

Not sure I get you.......my Type 1-Navy gun is a Showa 19, 1944. Do you mean just ARMY Type 1's or ALL Type 1's??
-TomH

[sbl11]

The Army version without a fore-grip was mostly produced in 1945, with only one known to having been produced in 1944 at this time. It has a very early two digit serial number, and all others are Showa 20 dated. So, I was just cautioning you to forget the serial numbers between the navy and army style guns, as the dates do not suggest a singular production line for both variants. Instead, the army version is of later design by approximately one year but with a new serial number range starting all over again from "1" . That means that there is a possibility of overlapping serial numbers but not within the same year of production, or what appears to be factory for that matter.


-seth

[sbl11]

So in short, I am saying that you can not judge the time lapse for the changing of vent hole shape from the latest type 1 that is pictured, based on its serial number. Think of it more like a Win-13 M-1 Garand, it was produced later with the same serial number range and at a different location.

Also,
It is of interest to find another type 98 with that same waist gunner position mount still attached. This one with a wooden cover. That makes a pictures of one with a bakelite rear, one surviving example with a bakelite rear, and one with a wooden rear all configured for the same mount in a Helen Bomber.

-Seth

[sbl11]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



This was discussed earlier in this thread, it deals with a document found at the national Archives that was translated from a Japanese Document in 1944. The documents original date is 1941, and discusses the material Japan was requesting from her European allies. On the 3rd page, you will note that "(2)" discusses a 7.9mm rhienmetal mg. Can anyone shed light on this translation: "Powder Wrappings"? Perhaps the literal translations from Japanese or German words would help identify this meaning.

Thanks,

Seth

[TactAdv]

Cartridges. Take it in context with line following.

[sbl11]

Sure enough, thats just an odd translation.

-seth

[sbl11]

It is also of great interest that the desired yearly output of 1,000 guns a year is surprisingly close to the numbers actually made, and that this was decided in 1941. I have seen no evidence of any type 98 production prior to 1942, which raises questions as to the those slow years between deciding on the 1938 type 98 and the production roughly 3-4 years later. What was the hold up?

-seth