Traversing Lock - Maker id?

[MarkFinneran]

Any ideas please on wo is this manufacturer/maker? Thanks. Mark

[bmg17a1]

Appears to be for the Finnish Maxims as the inside face of the lower clamp does not have the raised ridge to retain it in the MG08 traverse flange. The 08 sled traverse flange has a recess on the underside in which the ridge rides preventing the lock form being removed form the flange. The Finn traverse locks don't have the raised ridge on the bottom face of the clamp and will slide off the end of the traverse bar when the gun is traversed past the end.
The ridge on the MG08 lower face of the clamp is the only difference between the two types of locks.
I'll post pics of the two types later.

Bob Naess

[IMBLITZVT]

I agree with the raised edge however I don't think its for a 1910 type gun. The hole that the pin that attaches it to the gun should extend out father as the 1910 bottom plates lugs are spread wider apart. Looks like a Chinese T24 traverse lug to me. Those are odd stamps on the side...

Appears to be for the Finnish Maxims as the inside face of the lower clamp does not have the raised ridge to retain it in the MG08 traverse flange. ...
The ridge on the MG08 lower face of the clamp is the only difference between the two types of locks.
...

[bmg17a1]

Yes, I agree, it has the MG08 width, not the Russian/Finn. The T24 mount does not have the groove under the traverse flange so its probably for the T24 tripod.

Bob

[IMBLITZVT]

Hey Mark,

If its for sale, I am interested. You don't happen to have a German one or even parts of one for sale do you?

[bmg17a1]

Pushing this chain a bit further, the traverse lock could also be for any of the 1909 commercial Maxim variants as well. The mark on it appears to me to be more western than eastern, in this case chiinese, and I am inclined to think its German. I've not seen that mark on any of the T24s or parts that I've seen........

Bob

[IMBLITZVT]

The metal finish and bluing does look a little nice for Chinese. The Chinese Lugs I have all have serial numbers on them but no marks like this. Does the 1909 traverse rail like the Chinese one? I know it was copied but have no 1909 knowledge. However I tend to agree its not Chinese by the deep bluing on it.

[MarkFinneran]

Here are some more images and ty for the advice. There is also another type of pin for it which I shall photo.
Mark

[IMBLITZVT]

Handle looks German or at least not Chinese. However the three stamped numbers looks exactly like my chinese one...

So you want to sell it? I need one of those handles and cams.

[IMBLITZVT]

After thinking about it over night.... the 1909s were produced by DWM correct? From what I have seen, DWM marks pretty much every part they make! That along with the odd stamping makes me think its not German. The handle means its not Chinese, along with the lack of Chinese parts in Europe.

So not German, not Chinese... So I am thinking Swiss, MG11. The handle is then correct, the lack of DWM makes sense as well as the real nice bluing. If not Swiss I am thinking maybe one of the French tripods made for the MG08 commerical sales (like to Turkey). The keep is what those stamps are...

[IMBLITZVT]

Here are my three. Front left to right. German, pitted with cam. Chinese T24 missing cam handle retaining ring. German missing cam and handle. Also the one on the right takes a smaller cam then the other two...

[bmg17a1]

Of the two Swiss MG11 traverse locks I have, neither are marked like the one that Mark posted. One has a number on the handle collar and a very small unidenfiable stamp on the side pf the body, and the other has only the small stamp. The stamp is not the Swiss W+F logo. It is too small to be legible without a magnifying glass.
I have a dozen or so MG08 traverse locks, with the guide lug on the inside face of the lower jaw of the lock, and about 70% are not numbered or marked in any way. The marked ones have a number on the bottom of the lower jaw, but no other marks. I am not aware that DWM made sled hardware so I can't imagine that any of the locks would be DWM marked. In any case, the only identifier that I trust for an MG08 lock is the traverse rail retainer guide on the face of the lower jaw.
I have one for the T24 tripod which is crude and not numbered or marked in any way, and certainly not even close to the quality and style of Mark's lock.
I'm sticking to German manufacture for the 1909 Commercial or a contract example of that gun, at the moment....
I have seen that stamp before, it seesm to me, but where I can't figure out.

Bob

[IMBLITZVT]

Bob, Do you have a 1909? Are there any in the US?

I was thinking that DWM would probably make the 1909 commerical tripod as that was not a military piece and so probably not made by whoever made the sleds... but who knows?

While the mark does not look Swiss, it does not look German either. So I think I am at 50/50 on German or Swiss. There were a lot more MG11s made and only what about 1000 1909s so the chance I would think would still be with the swiss... For my 2 cents given neither country fits the stamp, I would go with swiss... a lot more made and made later so more likely to be around.

[bmg17a1]

Some years ago I handled the brokering of about 70 MGs remaining in Chuck Hudak's estate. Chuck ran Inland Arms in Dripping Springs, TX. I had his 1910 Costa Rican 1909 here for about five months but had only one offer on it, so I returned it to the estate. There are four C+R examples of these in the NFRTR, all 1909 commercial DWM guns made for Costa Rica. Probably should have bought it but I had other guns I was trying to afford at the time. Ryan Holder has it now I believe. It didn't have the correct numbered lock as I recall, but I think Ryan found the correct one for it. I've never heard of any non-contract 1909s in the US.

I finally took the traverse lock off my MG11 and cleaned it up for a thorough inspection. There is a small Swiss cross stamped on the side of the flange of the second pin which holds the lower jaw. The lock is numbered to my gun so I know it is factory. I can't see the flange side of the pin in Mark's second photo. Maybe he can take a pic of it to see if there is a Swiss cross, but I doubt there will be one there. So, at this point, unless a pic proves otherwise, it isn't Swiss.

Not sure I subscribe to the notion that production numbers necessarily correspond to the number of any particular odd part availability, especially when production numbers are so low anyway. Dolf brought in about 75 Swiss MG11 tripods, but many of them didn't have the locks. Given that the locks will slide off the traverse flange if one of the stops are off, they could just as easily been lost in the field on any of these tripods. I don't recall anything about the lock on the tripod with the 1909 gun, meaning whether it has a lug like the MG08 lock. I can ask Ryan as well as another guy I know two other guys who own !910 Costa Rican guns if I can remember to do it....

Interesting to spend some time sorting out the traverse locks, clearly a neglected corner of research!!

Bob

Bob