Japanese Type 1 (Type 98/MG-15 clone) reactivated

[bmg17a1]

MIDN Seth write:

>While this is my first machine gun,.....<

I'm going to throw a few shots across your bow, swabbie. First, you'll need 149 more MGs to catch up with me, Grasshopper. Bil, whose generosity to you on this thread has been obvious, jokes with you and you insultingly dismiss his 'validity' because he doesn't contribute something on point or of value to you? You have ONE MG, which YOU CAN'T EVEN TAKE APART, and you play holier-than-thou with us on this board? Someone forgot to teach you manners, son! Dismissed!

[sbl11]

Its not just me that can't get it taken apart. And it isn't a matter of not knowing how to. I have plenty of manners and am sorry for having insulted you. While i have alot of catching up to do, as far as machine gun numbers are concerned, i have done my fair share of research on this topic and have turned out more than you even cared to look into. I don't blame you for not caring about this enough to look into documentation because it isn't your fish to fry. And i don't mind you firing shots across my bow, you will only give me more motivation to prove you wrong, so please continue.For the motivation, I thank you. Where i may lack in tact, i make up for in determination. Unfortunately we got off to the wrong start, disallowing you to see the person i actually am. I don't make claims of being an expert, and i don't feel that the book is closed on this case. So to my knowledge there are no true experts on this topic. The one who finds the original documents may one day make that claim, but even then they still won't know all the details. I sent a letter out today heading for Japan. While Fuji bakelite Co. probably wont turn out to have any info on the german tools and moulds sent to Japan, it is worth a shot. I also handled a type 100 aircraft machine gun today in the museum here that appears to have been pulled from a wreck. There also appears to be a small bakelite knob on the left hand side of a type 96 in the museum as well. I spent 3 hours reviewing microfilm last friday night and another 3 today after school. That shows how aggrevated i am over this issue because anyone who knows midshipmen knows that nothing is more important than sleep and liberty. Once again, I apologize for the bad start, and am beyond that now. All that matters now is proof, not speculation.

seth

[sbl11]

For my first , i don't think anyone here would question my taste in mg's. You have to admitt i didn't do bad for $5000

[IMBLITZVT]

The one who finds the original documents may one day make that claim, but even then they still won't know all the details.

Hey your "original documents" remind me of the original idea from the Beautiful Mind!

Nash: "Find a truly original idea. It is the only way I will ever distinguish myself. It is the only way I will ever matter."

And now I think this thread has died... a slow and painful death of 6 pages that just makes one dizzy should they happen to come across it...

[sbl11]

I don't know what that means matt, i haven't seen the movie. Just trying to learn everything i can, so that there can be no questioning the documents(like the pictures). My "original documents" don't rely on speculations, they are primary sources of fact from the time frame. tidbits of the truth albeit, but still hold more water than assumptions. this isn't about my personal goal to be recognized as the quote insinuates, it is about being fair to that piece of history.

[sbl11]

bob,
One last thing, i only lashed out at those that fervently insulted my intelligence. Joke or not, it was at my expense. Without knowing personalities it is hard to judge one's intentions. Perception is reality, at least until otherwise discovered.

[Bil]

Now that we are all done with that,lets move on with the subject at hand,shall we? BTW-I may split this into two threads-one about removing the cover,and leaving the other discussion as is.That way the cover removal info can be accessed more easily in the future.Anyone object? Let me know please.Thanks all! ---bil

[sbl11]

found another type 98 with bakelite cover. It is in the Newport News Va war museum. It has the original japanese drum, made at yokuska, and was donated to the museum by Admiral Chester Nimitz. I would think that it would have been left original since it was donated from someone of such prestige.

[TactAdv]

found another type 98 with bakelite cover. It is in the Newport News Va war museum. It has the original japanese drum, made at yokuska, and was donated to the museum by Admiral Chester Nimitz. I would think that it would have been left original since it was donated from someone of such prestige.

NOW.....you have a mission. Go talk with them, have them dig up the donation records, that may prove nothing, but if it was donated closely after the end of the War, that begs to indicate that it more likely was found that way.

[sbl11]

well i did get the info sent to me. the registar scanned it, but it was cataloged in 1979. Nimitz died in 1966, so it must have been before then, but i don't think they have the record on when it was accually donated. I'll put pics up, the seam in the bakelite from the mould appears to go down the sides, not the top and bottom as usual.

-seth

[Bil]

Seth-here is a link for the book I was using on the subject.English site,but a review,and I know it is availlable here in the US. Nice find on the Nimitz gun! ---bil http://www.naval-military-press.com/kun ... kings.html
http://www.militarytrader.com/article/?p_ArticleId=5925 found one!

[sbl11]

Although i would hope that a piece from such a famous admiral would have been left untouched, there is as of now still the possibility that it was in fact changed out. Because we don't know when it was donated, no conclusions can be made on the idea of it being original. And, even if it was proof that the Japanese used not only bamboo and wood, but also some bakelite, it still wouldn't do anything to prove my own. It would however, disallow anyone to automatically disregard bakelite on jap 98's unless they have prior knowledge on the actual weapon and of its replacement. I think it is a neat find, but is still not enough proof. The bakelite on it looks very crude, almost like it was melted and then recooled. It looks like it was not finished well, not smooth and glossy in appearance, but not damaged by scratches or dings either. It might just be the picture quality.

[sbl11]

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[sbl11]

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[sbl11]

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[sbl11]

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[sbl11]

the above documents are for a type 98 donated by C.W. Nimitz to the War Museum in Newport News Va. It has a bakelite rear cover, the catalog date in 1979, but must have been donated earlier, as Nimitz died in 1966.

-seth

[sbl11]

Type 98 donated by nimitz with bakelite cover

[Bil]

Very interesting!! The cover DOES look like the seam is on the side,and it may just be the angle,but the top looks smooth.Just checked.all 3 of mine have seams top and bottom,and the front of both seams is raised. Not that it proves anything except the one pictured is not the same as 3 others!
But it is a start! Now to see if anyone else has a cover with this type seam, go from there! ---bil

[sbl11]

So it is common knowledge that the Japanese utilized the type 98 in the Kai-45 toryu (allied codename: NICK). I started to look into ways i could determine whether the contested navy department black and white picture could be proven japanese vice german mg15. I focused on the mounting system. where as the germans typically utilized a ball mount, the one pictured it definitly of square (looks to be two laminated/stacked sheets of steel held together with screws). I believe i have found this mount in a japanese nick fighter(fuselage remains located at nasm). It seems to be almost square, but one of the sides appears to be tappered, making almost a trapazoid in both the old black and white photo and the one at the museum.



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looks to be about the right size, shape, thickness...but im open to opinions...i wish i could get the picture from the book, its much larger and easier to distiguish