Barrel extensions

[railsplitter]

Three 8-MM barel extensions - note variation on middle extension - is this a earlier version without the radius cut? the two others are likely Yugo models. If this is already posted elsewhere I missed it.

[drooling idiot]

i do remember an earlier discussion about the two different cut-out styles. how and where to find it i'm not sure.

[fredieusa]

so .. what did you find ??

[TactAdv]

Three 8-MM barel extensions - note variation on middle extension - is this a earlier version without the radius cut? the two others are likely Yugo models. If this is already posted elsewhere I missed it.

It is an MG39/41 barrel. EXCEEDINGLY rare if in COMPLETE original condition, as manufactured. I have had a couple over the years.


The MG39/41 was the "pre-production" version of the gun, the earliest version that was tentatively produced in volume. As deficiencies in parts were discovered with usage, corrections were made to the design package. One of these was with the shape of the locking recesses in the extension which was redesigned to avoid stress crack propagation at the corners, as you can see between the two versions.

Inside, the locking recesses are also visibly different, too:


You don't say, but if you have the ORIGINAL MG39/41 complete BARREL assembly, the actual barrel is quite different too. Here's one of the last ones I have, note the front contours of the muzzle are quite different too:


To be an authentic, ORIGINAL, MG39/41 barrel the actual TUBE MUST BE made from an existing MG-34 barrel! You can see in the below images that the tube is actually a modified MG-34 tube mated to the MG39/41 extension. Please pay particular attention to the certain give-away markings that indicate the maker and dates of mfgr for the tube make it only possible to have been an original MG-34 barrel. In this case, this tube was still being marked with the waA codes for the SUBCONTRACTOR of the steel used ('aaj'), a practice for which this particular subcontractor was stopped long before the "MG-42" program was in full swing, hence, proof the tube was originally made as an MG-34 barrel, later modified. Also, there has never been noted a true MG-39/41 barrel that was NOT marked for 'cra' as this was the only prime contractor engaged this early in the program. See the waA codes on the extension as verifications of this. Your extension should also be 'cra' coded. Note also that the TUBE shows the characteristic markings of the measured slugged bore diameter, which was only done on MG-34 barrels, and only early on....more proof.









These original MG-39/41 barrels, as COMPLETE originals, are exceedingly rare, anywhere in the world as most got destroyed in use, or were re-barreled later as the tube wore out. Mostly, the very few that still exist in their full original form came out of Russia where they were captured as new guns in transit, etc. There are virtually no known well used MG-39/41 barrels around as those that were used were sent back and had new tubes put back on. Only the new ones that came with new unissued guns that were captured in that condition seem to exist. The barrel that I have shown here is brand new, unissued, unfired.

There are only a handful of documented MG-39/41 guns, and perhaps a few spare barrels known so far today, almost all are in museums or European advanced collections. This barrel I am showing here is still for sale, if anybody wants a truly rare item.

-TomH

[fab]

The WWII German barrels i have ...


old a nd new style extention...
but the only 1942 dated barrel i have is a new front contours of the muzzle style...

your 1st style barrel is great !!!

Fab.

[42rocker]

Nice info to share

Thanks

Later 42rocker

[Blanksguy]

TactAdv,
Questions pop up as we look at these WWII Barrel-Assemblies....and maybe you could post some additional photos/information (as other can who own complete/original MG42 Barrel-Assemblies in 8x57mm (not 7.62x51mm):

1: In the "German Machineguns" by Musgrave........(if memory serves me right) he talks about four combinations of muzzes vs. Barrel-Bearings and the inability to switch parts from earlier to later model guns (IE: MG39/41 to MG42 models). Please check around in your parts to see if we can come up with early vs. late barrel-bearings and muzzles with other profiles.

2: At this point, I am questioning "when" the use of the "staking" of barrels started (by date) or if it was only those barrels that were changed (IE: They would remove the worn-out barrel from the barrel-extension....then grind a slight notch in the barrel-extension at the front for "staking".....then after installing a new barrel, they would "stake" the barrel at the rear into that notch placed/ground into the barrel-extension. On your earlier-barrel.......is the extension "staked" at the rear (?).

3: Naturally, MG34 barrels (if excess at/near a plant or near the "front") that had the ability to install and turn them down would fill "needs" at the front for MG-42 barrels........do you know if the threads at the rear of that MG-34 barrel were re-cut to fit the MG42 barrel-extension (?).....or if they are interchangeable with MG-42 threads (?). I am wodering how much work would be involved in a lathe-operation like this for our uses here on the MG-42 Board (?).

4: Does anyone have any photos from the earlier MG39/41 Manual that show some of these other muzzle-profiles......or possible information on what the parts requirements were for interchanging these parts from gun to gun (?).

There are probably several other questions to be asked in this area....but these should generate some interest and possibly other information/photos.
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[fab]

an early MG42 barrel manufactured before November 1942 (according my book )

and look at the silver color of the barrel extention....

[TactAdv]

Questions pop up as we look at these WWII Barrel-Assemblies.

2: At this point, I am questioning "when" the use of the "staking" of barrels started (by date) or if it was only those barrels that were changed
-------------
Richard, I do not recall precise dates but I believe it was stopped relatively early on. There was also I believe a concurrent effort on the Kar 98K program to stop this about the same time as the slugging stopped being indicated. My barrel *IS* staked, you can clearly that it is in one of the above photos.

-------------

3: ........do you know if the threads at the rear of that MG-34 barrel were re-cut to fit the MG42 barrel-extension (?).....or if they are interchangeable with MG-42 threads (?). I am wodering how much work would be involved in a lathe-operation like this for our uses here on the MG-42 Board (?).
--------------

Barrel shank(and respective barrel extension) thread patterns are indentical/interchangable between '34 and '42. I seem to recall also that MG34S is different, though....I'll have to go look. My MG81 certainly is.

Refitting an existing MG-34 tube is not hard at all......shorten, recontour, recrown is pretty much it. As you can see in the photos above nothing was done that intruded into the existing rear end of the MG-34 tube, at all.....all the modifications were done to the forward end alone.

--------------

4: Does anyone have any photos from the earlier MG39/41 Manual that show some of these other muzzle-profiles......or possible information on what the parts requirements were for interchanging these parts from gun to gun (?).

--------------
You are correct, there was a table of allowances that specified the ability to interchange the front end components when using up existing early stocks, etc.

It might be in one of John's manuals....IIRC I saw it there again, too?????

There is DEFINITELY a pattern of compatible/incompatible combinations, though.

-TomH

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Detailed and useful info like this is why this forum is one of the best on the web. Thanks to all who contributed both questions and answers for this thread.

[fab]

According the H. DV. 181/7 from the May 3th 1944 translated by John.

Barrel
Together with the new style Barrel Bushing, whose wall thinkness on the notch is only 1mm instead of 3mm, a barrel is issued with the outer diameter between the pair of Ribs behind the Muzzle of 20.5mm, and not the previous 17 mm

Barrel Bushing

From established manufacturing, the barrel bushing for the front mounting of the barrel is replaced by one with a wall thickness on the tabs of only 1mm instead of 3mm.
If a new barrel is issued along with is new barrel bushing, with the outside diameter of the taper behind the muzzle ridges of not 17mm, but rather 20.5mm, the replacement of the barrel bushing and the barrel change occurs as usual

These can be together
The new style barrel bushing with the new style barrel
The new style barrel bushing with the old style barrel
The old style barrel bushing with the old style barrel

These cannot be used together :
The old style barrel bushing with the new style barrel


If only « old style barrel bushings and new style barrels » are present, then the outside diameter of the muzzle can be reworked from 20.5mm to 17mm.

Modification to the barrel allow use with both the old style and new style barrel bushing.


Now perhaps you could me to understand what the first barrel bushing looks like…



Thanks

Fab.

[Blanksguy]

TactAdv,
I would have to disagree about "nothing done to the MG34-Barrel OD towards the outside rear of the MG34-Barrel".

The MG-34 Barrel OD would have to be turned down about a tenth of an inch.....and the angled-cut at the rear of an MG-34 Barrel would have to be removed so that the wider-"shelf" to stop against the barrel-stop inside the MG42 receiver (riveted under the rear-sight) could be cut.

But the other information is good to know as we gather more information on the MG39/41.

The MG34S (MG34/41) Barrels are much different that the MG-34 Barrels. I never got a chance to remove one of the barel-extension off of any of the three barels that I owned (MG34/41, and MG34S)....but due to OD (of not only barrels but of the extensions themselves being much larger).....I would tend to think that could possibly be different also. I know that the barrel-extentions used a different internal-cut due to the MG34/41 (MG34S) only having the larger locking-lug-surfaces of the MG34/41 (MG34S) Bolt-Assemblies.......and not using the same locking-surfaces/diameters as the MG-34.
The muzzle-diameters on the MG34/41 and MG34S barrels is much larger also....requiring the larger "ID" in the Barrel-Bearings area.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[railsplitter]

Detailed and useful info like this is why this forum is one of the best on the web. Thanks to all who contributed both questions and answers for this thread. Very Impresive Postings