Confused MG42 or MG1 or MG2 or ????????????

[xtal01]

Like everyone else here, I want to build a MG42 semi.

Plan to build it next year (just got a new workshop under roof .. no power yet).

Anyway, I figure I had better pick up a kit now before there are none left (looks like I am already late).

Seems to be very little kits too choose from now. I looked at the kit from Allegheny but your site says the receivers are hacked (to save money I want to weld up the receiver .... I have a mig / tig welder).

The only other kit I found is from Dan at Angola Armory. From other posts the receiver looks like it is cut correctly. Dan says he puts together kits from per-45 receivers with barrels, and other parts from the 50's (308 cal). He said the barrel is fair to good (I guess I will need to get another barrel ...seem to be $100-$150)

Dan says these are MG1's but if I am reading my reference books correctly, these are actually MG2's (MG1's are new production 308's and MG2's are pre-45 units converted to 308 in the 50's). MG42/59 is the name used for the MG1 (new production) before it was adopeted by the new German army.

First question: Am I correct? Is this and MG2?

Second: What does it fire? MG42's use ???? belts. MG1's use ??? belts. MG1A1's used fixed link DM1 belts only. MG1A2's fire DM1 or disinterating M13 belts. MG1A3's uesd DM1. MG2's use ???? belts. MG42/59 use ???? belts.

Third: Is this a good kit to start with should I keep looking (most people like IO are sold out of everything).

Finally: If I want to shoot from a drum, what do I need to change? Dan said only the feed tray. I went to RTG to look for parts. They offer an MG1 top cover and feed tray for $85. They also offer a MG3 feed tray only for $45 (both in 308).

Sorry for so may questions, just the more I read, the more I get confused.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks .... Mike

[none123]

Abwehr

Generalmajor




Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 742
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: Info on Differences

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OK guys, get your thinking caps on, I am confused (perpetual state anyway, LOL)

According to the Post War German Manual (J. Baum's excellent translation) on the MG1 and MG2 machingun, it states that the MG2 was an original MG42 modified only to accept the 7.62 NATO cartridge by changing the Feed tray, Barrel and Booster.

The MG1 was a new made machinegun for the 7.62 NATO cartridge.

OK, if this is true, when does the MG3 come into play, and what is the difference between the MG1 and the MG3?

I had always thought the MG1 was a modified MG42, the MG2 was an MG42 with a mixture of new receiver/parts and using old WWII spare parts. The MG3 was a totally new made machinegun with the H&K type drum attachment. I see this was all wrong. Still confused, HELP!

Abwehr

Generalmajor




Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 742
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:42 am Post subject: MG42 - MG1 - MG2 - MG3

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I was looking on the Gunboards Forum this morning and did a search for "MG42". One of the items that came up was the differences between the different model designations, I know there was a discussion about this several weeks ago so I thought I would post the information "Sarge" posted. I can't vouch for the info, but wanted to pass it along. The response is as follows:

"The sequence from MG 42 to MG 3 is:
MG 42 used by the new Bundeswehr from 57 into early 60s.
MG 42/59 was the reverse engineered MG 42 - in 8MM - put into service to replace
aging MG 42s, in very late 59 (and gradually replaced the MG 42s) and was in turn superseded .The MG 42/59s were later converted to NATO before being phased out and are then designated,
MG 1 which is always in NATO 7.62 x 51 cal.
There was a short lived MG 2, but it wasn't widely adopted and was quickly superseded by the,
MG 3 is an improved MG 2, the most notable difference is the flash hider. The MG 3 has a variable rate of fire - depending on the bolt & buffer combination - of from 700 to 1500 rpm.
Since the MG 3 came into service about 25 years ago, I seriously doubt there are any MG 42/59s or MG 1s still in service in the Bundeswehr.
Sarge"

drooling idiot

Moderator




Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 222
Location: Philla ,PA
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject:

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a original 8MM top cover will work with

1) an original mg42 8MM feed tray
2) a mg42 8MM feed tray converted to an MG1 .308 feed tray.
NOT a MG2 or MG3 feed tray.

a dedicated .308 top cover will only work with

1) A MG2 feed tray.
2) A MG3 feed tray.
not a MG1 or 8MM


the two top covers have 2 different sized

1) feed pawls, Mg3 should work in mg42 but not the other way.
2) "center link" mg42 has roughly equal length arms, Mg3 has one arm longer that works the feed pawl. not interchangeable!
3) feed stud guide lever mg42 is shorter for the longer 8MM round. (approx. 8 3/8") Mg3 is longer at 8 7/8".
Mg3 will not work on a mg42/MG1 , mg42 may work on a Mg3 top cover but it will have a 1/2" gap behind the feed tray which seems like a bad idea.


mg42 pure = 8MM
MG1 hybrid = .308/8MM
MG2 pure = .308 patterned after 8MM
Mg3 pure = .308
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[drooling idiot]

Dangola's MG1 kits are the way to go. The kits are complete , Dans a stand-up guy , and the torch cuts aren't overly sever .
they are also extremely versatile in that there just right for converting to 8MM easily or even to MG3 without much fuss.
you never did say which caliber you were interested in shooting .i hope the replies have been some help.
i am currently trying to but info together in the stickies section , if you can't find the info you need PM me and I'll try to start a thread to cover that subject .

[xtal01]

Thanks for all the help.

I agree, Dan seems like a great guy!

Since this will be a shooter I was leaning toward 308 (figure it will be easier to get ammo for in coming years). I purchased a 1919a4 kit last year also in 308 for the same reason.

I talked with Dan again. This kit will build an MG2 (pre-45 gun updated to 308 in the 50's).

I asked him about using it with a drum. He suggested all I need to do is change the feed tray to an MG1 or MG3 tray.

One question I do still have is concerning barrels. I found a "new" barrel for $125. Description reads "MG42 barrel, new, MG3, 308, with extension .... $125".

What part is the "extension". With all barrels fit into all guns?

Thanks .... Mike

[drooling idiot]

an MG1 feed tray is a converted 8MM tray and won't work with that top cover.
its a good kit , i have one myself. If your only doing .308 get the kit and the MG3 feed-tray/ drum package from Interordinance. NOW, as i hear there running out.
All barrels fit all guns , the barrel extension is the square part that locks the bolt to the barrel. I can't believe the price of barrels right now, but it will probably get worse.

[xtal01]

Parts from IO look great. I only want a 308 gun. I will call Monday AM and see if they have any left.

So:
1) the feed tray and top cover from Dan's kit will fire 8mm WWII belts and new DMI belts (both non-disinigrating). Is the IO parts a true MG3 feed tray (advertisement says MG42/MG3/MG21)?

2) what belts can I fire with the new IO parts (8mm, dmi, m13 disintegrating)?

3) any reason to change the top cover to MG3?

4) any reason to change any other parts to MG3 (booster, ...)????

Sorry for so many questions. I want to order everything on Monday and just want to make sure I get it right.

Thanks again for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

[drooling idiot]

Parts from IO look great. I only want a 308 gun. I will call Monday AM and see if they have any left.
Sorry to send you a private message but I did not know how often you check messages and I wan to make sure I am ordering the correct parts on Monday.

Sorry i was away this weekend just getting a chance to come on-line.

1) the feed tray and top cover from Dan's kit will fire 8MM WWII belts and new DM1 belts (both non-disintegrating). Is the IO parts a true MG3 feed tray (advertisement says MG42/MG3/MG21)?

Dans parts work with 8MM belts but not 8MM bullets. WW2 and DM1 belts are similar enough to be interchangeable, kinda like 7.62 x 51 and .308 , there not exactly the same thing but 99.44% alike. the IO parts are true mg3 that is the correct part.

)2 what belts can I fire with the new IO parts (8MM, DM1, m13 disintegrating)?

the new mg3 feed tray is designed for the M13 links. it may should work with the belts but maybe hard on them. if your running belts put the tray that came with the kit back on. ( MG2 )

3) any reason to change the top cover to MG3?

4) any reason to change any other parts to MG3 (booster, ...)????

Sorry for so many questions. I want to order everything on Monday and just want to make sure I get it right.

Thanks again for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

No reason to change top cover the MG3 top cover has a catch to keep it open and a spring to align the feed arm on the Full auto bolt you'd need to remove or modify. changing the booster is mostly for looks and not needed, but if you find a cheap one get it . they are designed differently and are an interesting piece to have around.

I don't mind questions in the least it shows you want to learn.

[TOM R]

askin questions is better then lurkin