M53 Help! Please!

[Zgunman]

Thought I'd better try here for some help with this thing.

I have a WLA M53 that has driven me nuts for the past year. Out of the box it failed to extract and eject. Sent it back and it returned with a smaller booster (10mm). Upon its return, I shot it a little (it was cold as hell that day so only about 10 rounds) and everything seemed OK. It then sat in the vault.

Fast forward to this past Thanksgiving day.

Brought it out for the kids to shoot and it would only fire single shot. I was having problems feeding and advancing the belt. I've been working on it since then and have talked to the folks at WLA several times.

I discovered that the tab that was welded on for the charging rod was dragging on the right side of the hammer and on the lower housing itself. I also saw that the hammer had galled the underside of the bolt carrier. I have since polished the underside of the bolt carrier and reprofiled the tab to eliminate any dragging. I also noticed that the pin that goes through the hammer for the spring link on the left side was working its way to the right effectively binding the link. I peened the pin and used my press to reinstall it securely. It's not going anywhere now.

Turning my attention to the feeding issue, I have readjusted (bent) my top cover so that it now fits with no wobble on the receiver. Having all that accomplished I tried feeding rounds. No luck. She'll feed one but will not advance the belt and feed another. I'm going to attempt live fire tomorrow but I'm not expecting any joy about now.

Anyone have issues such as these? If so, what did you do about it? We'll see how live fire goes but I'm about ready to wrap this thing around a tree. It's really starting to tick me off. I'm using WWII links so I don't think that's the problem and shooting Romanian ammo so I don't think that's the problem either. I'm very familiar with 1919s so I'm not a complete newby to belt feds. However, I also fully realize that the M53 is a completely different animal than the 1919.

I'm really starting to wish that I had saved my money or that WLA would take this thing back and get it running. I don't mind doing a little tinkering but this is getting ridiculous. Any advice from the experts on these things??

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

The feed mechanism is a complex thing that can only be diagnosed in person. Suggestions would be pretty much guesses without more info. One of us would have to examine it closely. There is a decent chance that one or more parts, including the top cover, is our of tolerance. The solution could be simple or complex. Is there anyone near you who has an MG-42 or M53? I could help if I could examine the parts in my hands. I am in MN.

[JBaum]

You bent your top cover???? that's scary. What part of the top cover did you bend? Does everything still work freely inside it with it bent?

Dumb question (maybe), but are you sure the feed lever in the top cover has the feed pin on the bolt housing properly in the groove? Does the feed lever let make the feed pawls work without any binding or resistance? Do the feed pawl springs flex easily?

Did you at some point close the top cover on a belt of ammo that was pulled the whole way to the right against the stop, with the bolt forward? That could bend the pressure plate tab and screw the feeding up when you forced the bolt back so you could load it. The bolt operates the feeding half way on the rearward stroke of the bolt, and the other half on the forward stroke. If you load the belt the whole way to the right with the bolt forward, you're trying to force the belt to the right even more when you pull the bolt back. It can't go any further right, and things get bent that way.

A dab of light grease at the friction points inside the gun (rails, trigger group, feeder) goes a long way to making it work better, too.

Does the gun/bolt cycle properly and easily when there is no belt in it? It isn't rocket science here, and not to be insulting, but this gun is not an assembly of several blocks of steel like the 1919a4, and things can be bent when improperly operated. The 119a4 is pretty tough to screw up with all the heavy steel in it. The MG42 is a lot easier to make a mistake with, and bend something, since most of it is bent sheet metal and not blocks and plates of steel.

Details please, and we can narrow it down to a few things.

[oakrodent]

Send it back to Wise Lite! Every raves about their customer service.

Seriously, the best thing to do is find out if you live near one of us. There are very few problems that most of us can't fix. Usually it is just a little tweaking here or there to get them to run correctly. Or send it back to Wise Lite and buy yourself a BRP, you get what you pay for.

[buster]

Try taking the weight off of the belt by holding it up with your hand or use a drum.

[Zgunman]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it. I'll see if I can address what been brought up:

No worries with the top cover. Upon the advice of WLA I simply bent the rear tabs of the top cover inward effectively making it fit tighter on the receiver (i.e. no rear wobble). The top cover functions just fine and the paws work easily and their springs do not bind. Feed pin on the bolt is properly set within the belt feed channel of the top cover.

I have always loaded the belt with an empty link over the cartridge slot, close top cover and cycle action. The manual says to pull links to the right until round snaps under the depressor tab after closing the top cover. It seems loading it that way would cause damage to the double feed mech as a round would already be present over the slot during the first stage of feeding, thus, damaging the pawl. Correct? I don't think the tab is bent but I'll double check it again.

Taking the weight off of the belt does help it feed a little. However, this is not the answer as it is supposed to run without having to baby it that much. This leads me to believe that there is wear or weak springs on the pawls although they appear in very good condition.

Side note - I also have a parts kit laying around here and borrowed the top cover off of it to try. It didn't make any difference in feeding or advancing which tells me that there's something else going on. Maybe something with the bolt itself.

This thing is wet too. I'm running grease on all wear points. Oil on rollers, bolt parts and trigger group. The gun cycles fine when no belt is present.

I understand about the 1919 vs the M53 and, no, I'm not insulted. I realize that they are completely different animals in their design and construction. Maybe I'm simply spoiled by the 1919's reliability. I'm beginning to think that getting this to run might not be rocket science but M53 science. Everything seems to work as it should with this gun but it won't behave. Blocks and plates of steel trump sheet metal again!

And yes, if I could, I would return it for a refund and buy a BRP (or a TNW when they come out). However, that's not happening now so I'm stuck trying to get this one going. Lesson learned. Time to move on and figure this out.

BTW, I'm in S. IL. I'm not aware of anyone close by that has one of these so it's probably going to have to go back to WLA on my dime if I can't get her running.

[blakesguns]

Nice to see another fellow on here from Southern Illinois. Sorry I can't help much, I'm pretty new to the 42/53 as well. I'm in the middle of a m53 build. Hope you get her running.

[JBaum]

Does it pass the pogo test OK? If the recuperator isn't operating freely, it will waste a lot of recoil energy to operate, and there isn't much to spare in a semi MG42.

Next then would be to swap the recoil spring with another one. If it's weak, there's not enough energy to make the feeder work.

Try it with some commercial ammo.

You could always take it to Knob Creek during the MG shoot and meet a few of the guys there to get it diagnosed.

[Zgunman]

Pogo tests fine. I replaced the recoil spring with a replacement that WLA sent so that should be OK for now.

That's the thing that's bugging the heck out of me. Outside of the obvious rubbing/galling problems that I've found and fixed everything else seems fine. I know there has to be something that I'm overlooking.

Shooting was a washout today as it's been raining hard since 9 am. I'll get her out this weekend and see what she does.

I should have stuck with the original plan which was to build one from the kit that I'm currently hording.

Another question - what success has anyone had converting these to .308? Could it be expected to run better? I hate to do it now because I have a LOT of 8mm but eventually that's going to run out. I have a lot of .308 as well and reload it constantly which is why I'm thinking of the eventual conversion.

[Mikesal]

What part of So. IL are you guys in? I'm near Fairfield, IL. I have 3 kits laying around here if you ever need to experiment with swapping parts (all of mine are 8mm).
Mike S.

[drooling idiot]

first suggestion , and don't scoff because it has come up, is the bolthead installed right side up?

second crawl before you walk, then walk , then run.
start with firing rounds already hand-fed into the barrel.
then move to stripping single rounds from the feedtray.
then a light belt of 5-10 rds.
finally a full belt.

the parts need to learn to work together.

[blackreichswehr]

sounds like a simple fix, first off call WLA and demand satisfaction, i dought they will turn you a cold shoulder. the semi auto is a whole new animal , like a fifth cousin to the m53. remember we are building from a parts kit to begin with, a lot of parts will interchange satisfactorily.check your bolt face, look for wear in recesses for the bolt rollers,etc. i,ve built 4 m53's from parts kits and currently on the 5th,which will be my last. i have a 1919a4 semi as well, on a MOASS spar mounted to my mg3, 500 + rpm, it's cool, but nothing compares like shooting m53 or mg42 semi-- don't give up. wish i could take it apart and see whats going on but, i'm 2 hours north in central, illinois. if you exhaust all resourses, contact me and we'll get it running.

[Zgunman]

Shot it today (and, yes, it was cold). I'm close to getting this thing running. Real close.

While I had it in the shop, I replaced the 11mm booster that WLA had installed with an original one from my parts kit. I figured that maybe the 11mm booster was beating the gun up by increasing bolt velocity making things bounce like they shouldn't. I figured I'd start with a larger one and see how that worked.

It did. I had decided that I wasn't leaving the bench until my belt of 200 rounds was empty. She ran fine at first (about a dozen rounds in a row) and then started acting up. The rounds are feeding fine and the belt is advancing like it should. Extraction and ejection is positive but not overly violent. I did shoot all 200 eventually.

The only problem that I'm having now is it won't strip the rounds from the belt every time. She'll usually go 2-3 rounds and then miss picking one up and stripping it into the chamber. Pop the cover and reset everything works to get her going for another 2-3 (maybe even 5) rounds.

So now what is the solution? Even though these are WWII belts could they be a little on the tight side? They've been cleaned and lightly oiled so I can rule that out. I can load them by hand easily but I do have to use a little force to get the rounds to seat. Nothing major though. I also wondered if the tab on the bolt could be too short causing it to miss the head of the case. She'll try to push the round forward but eventually slips off and closes on an empty chamber. Might the depressor tab be too high?

If one was to resize belts what should the diameter of the sizing rod be? I ask this because I have a lathe in the shop and could easily turn one.

Thanks for all of the help guys. We're getting close.

[Zgunman]

Oops, WLA had installed a 10mm booster instead of an 11. Doesn't make any difference but I wanted to correct the typo in my last post.

[fourfifths1911]

my ww2 belts were a little tight at first after using them a few times they are not as tight plus my 42 semi ran like crap til about three hundred rounds doen the pipe and 3000 blanks later she runs like a top they defantly need some break in time ask di he helped me get mine running

[Zgunman]

Just finished cleaning. Everything looked ok with the carrier and the hammer where it was rubbing before. I took the booster apart for cleaning and discovered that the bearing was tight in the bushing. Hammered it out and saw that the slots that are cut in the bushing had been peened on their forward edge. This had caused the bearing to be tight enough that I had to lightly hammer it rearward to remove it. Reinstallation was impossible without taking a small file and removing those ridges from the bushing. Now I wonder if this is simply a "settling in" of the parts or if this peening will continue.

What next?

I'm really starting to think this thing was put together on a Friday afternoon by a drunk monkey. In my opinion, WLA never should have let this thing out of the factory as it has had more issues than it should've. A buddy of mine really wants an MG42 but I've told him to wait for TNW or buy a BRP. I cannot in good faith recommend a WLA M53 with all the problems that I've had with this one. Sorry WLA but this particular rifle apparently missed your quality control. Your folks have been helpful but I'd prefer not to need the service.

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Sounds like you're making progress locating all the screwed up things and fixing them one at a time. Congrats.

[blackreichswehr]

use the 11mm booster , as to your booster being over tight, you were getting a harder backward movement, good for you catching that, that will save wear and unwanted damage to your parts. good luck.

[Zgunman]

What could be the cause of that bearing peening the slots in the bushing? Forceful resetting of the barrel and bolt might do that but what can be done about it? Can I expect it to continue or will it settle in eventually?

I haven't measured it but the booster that I now have in it is larger than 11mm. We want only as much gas "boosting" as it takes to cycle the action successfully and no more, right? The one that I installed (and works) came from a parts kit.

[blackreichswehr]

what you have is the 11.5mm , dont sweat -- there were a lot of mathmatics that went into the design of the full auto, in order to work at the rate of fire it came to. with the semi, not a lot of thought advanced forward-except to make a semi, therefore promblems-- it's all a timing issuse. bolt weight w/ the extention,recoil spring tension , buffer counter action, and the short recoil assembly. behold the heinz 57. if anyone thought were would not be problems is a fool.