Potential Receiver Stampings -- Interested?

[gdmoore28]

Because he has the capability to manufacture the dies, board member toolman_556 has agreed to seriously explore the possibility of manufacturing new receiver section stampings at realistic prices. In order to do so, he will naturally have to be able to justify the startup expenses with sufficient unit sales.

This project will not get off the ground without the support of the builder community, so your input is needed.

Exact configuration has yet to be determined, but initial consideration is for a set of two stampings, left and right, to replace the receiver from a point just forward of the camming/trunnion area. See the BRP-produced stampings as a general guideline.

The initial discussions of this potential project can be foundhere in the "Legalities" section of this board.

How many board members could see themselves purchasing these parts?

What would you consider a fair price per pair of stampings?

Taking a wild guess, how many pair could you see being sold in the first year, assuming they are the most economical stampings on the market?

Outside of the members of this board, what other potential customers exist for these pieces?

The potential roadblocks are obvious and naysaying and negativism is easy. Toolman_556 needs to hear suggestions on how we can help him to MAKE THIS WORK. He's willing to do the work for us. How can we support him?
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[TOM R]

we all know it can be done problem is you need to know a $ for guys to realy figure on how many guys will want em

[Cpt_Kirks]

We all know BRP already has functioning dies. I think if you get really serious about this, Brian will run off a new batch of stampings and eat your lunch.

But, hey, go for it. Competition is a good thing.

[fal lover]

i say go for it also, there isalways gonna be a need untill these kits dry up

[-M60_Gunner-]

Hell, I'm in for two if the price is decent.

[propos]

I wonder if it would be possible to find an investor for this project. Someone who could be convinced to invest some of their moldy money something like this. Are there any financial investor types here. Or someone who knows the way to one? There are possibilities for an investment of this type I think. Someone also made mention of a Stg-44 receiver. With the various kits out there that need receivers there should be a market for new made receivers.
This is not quite the same but guys make their own AK receivers. Granted an AK receiver isn't as complcated as an SA-42 but the principle is the same. You start out with a flat piece of metal and stamp or bend it into whatever shape you need.
This project has merit. It just has to be thought through to a viable solution. Time for "Operation Group Think".

[88comm]

As long as barrel shroud and front ends are available, I would be in for a set of what you suggest. Cost to me? I would feel that $300 for a pair of rough stampings would be good. Sold that way, we do all the clean-up ourselves. Knowing what the kits are bringing ($1500) I might even go for two sets at that price.

Chris

[bertbacharat]

In for one.

[gdmoore28]

Do I understand correctly that only one importer is responsible for bringing in the BULK of the MG42/M53 parts kits? If so, does anybody have access to somebody who can give us some idea as to the number of kits that were imported?

I'd llike to get some kind of handle on how many receiver-less kits there are floating around out there. From there we should be able to make some sort of guess as to approximately how many receiver stampings might be expected to sell. Any projections will be a guess, of course, but SOME sort of projection of sales needs to be made to compare against the projected cost of the die.

If this project shows the potential for profits there should be no problem finding an investor -- if that's the way toolman wants to proceed. My first concern would be that toolman be first in line for any rewards coming out of a successful project. But first we've got to get the numbers down to see if this is feasible.

Toolman will be putting together the production costs as he develops the road to manufacturing these pieces thru his contacts in the industry. Probably the biggest help we can offer right now is establishing the size of the market for the stampings. Naturally, the more pieces are sold the less each unit will cost. But the pool of customers will have to extend beyond the members of this board in order to cut the the current cost of receivers by at least half -- hopefully more?.

Anybody have access to parts kit sales numbers? (Parts kits sold without receivers so far, that is.)

Any other relevant info highly appreciated.

[041x]

Do I understand correctly that only one importer is responsible for bringing in the BULK of the MG42/M53 parts kits? If so, does anybody have access to somebody who can give us some idea as to the number of kits that were imported?

There were 5000 imported by century the last go around.

[PvtJoker]

5000, eh? Interesting, but I think the other relevant issue would be how many rear receiver sections and complete receivers were sold out there from all those 5000 weapons imported, vs how many front section only kits are floating around out there. In other words, how much of the 5000 potential market is already being addressed from other sources like IMA, and how many cam sections and barrel repair sections are already out there. Not trying to be negative, but from a business standpoint, it seems a fair question to estimate market demand and saturation.

[whitezcamaro]

Hell yea depending on price i would probably buy two

[salt6]

I personally believe a better project would be a semi MP44. This would only be good if the new German ones can't be imported. So if they cna't be, then imported as parts and assembled here that would definitely a winner.


salt

[Cpt_Kirks]

Now, I would be up for a nicely price MP44 receiver, or nice receiver sections.

All the parts but barrel and receiver can be imported for the moment.

[Sledge303]

5000, eh? Interesting, but I think the other relevant issue would be how many rear receiver sections and complete receivers were sold out there from all those 5000 weapons imported, vs how many front section only kits are floating around out there. In other words, how much of the 5000 potential market is already being addressed from other sources like IMA, and how many cam sections and barrel repair sections are already out there. Not trying to be negative, but from a business standpoint, it seems a fair question to estimate market demand and saturation.

Well, we know one sole source importer brought all the Yugo M53's into the USA. Unless the UN lifts the Arms Embargo on Yugoslavia there are no more coming into this country. We also know this importer has long had a policy of not selling all receiver pieces on any parts set that includes the barrel. So, safe bet is that NONE of these Yugoslavian receiver pieces ever made it onto the open market. I have never seen any offered in this country that didn't have German makers marks. Now a "wild card". The importer bought all the Yugo M53's that were tendered just prior to the UN Arms Embargo. Question is how many went to the USA warehouse and how many went to the Canadien warehouse?

[PvtJoker]

5000, eh? Interesting, but I think the other relevant issue would be how many rear receiver sections and complete receivers were sold out there from all those 5000 weapons imported, vs how many front section only kits are floating around out there. In other words, how much of the 5000 potential market is already being addressed from other sources like IMA, and how many cam sections and barrel repair sections are already out there. Not trying to be negative, but from a business standpoint, it seems a fair question to estimate market demand and saturation.

Well, we know one sole source importer brought all the Yugo M53's into the USA. Unless the UN lifts the Arms Embargo on Yugoslavia there are no more coming into this country. We also know this importer has long had a policy of not selling all receiver pieces on any parts set that includes the barrel. So, safe bet is that NONE of these Yugoslavian receiver pieces ever made it onto the open market. I have never seen any offered in this country that didn't have German makers marks. Now a "wild card". The importer bought all the Yugo M53's that were tendered just prior to the UN Arms Embargo. Question is how many went to the USA warehouse and how many went to the Canadien warehouse?

OK. But where did the IMA German rear pieces and the cam sections that are out there come from? Not trying to argue with you; just trying to understand the dynamics of the receiver marketplace. The Yugo M53's are where the $250 range kits with barrels, parts and front shrouds are from, but what about the German MG-42 kits? Where and how many of those are over here floating around, or does anyone know? Or did they come in with the 5,000 mentioned already? If the Yugo kits are all without the missing parts, then the market logically would be a percentage of that number (less multiple purchases of kits for spare parts by the same buyers) less the cut number of German MG-42's that have the potential as donors.

[Sledge303]

From this same importer there were MG34's, MG42's, Browning M2's and M1919's that all came out of Yugoslavia before the M53's (and a whole bunch of Yugo AK's). At the time these earlier guns were arriving (pre Interordnance PPSH-41 debacle) they were demilled and sold with receiver parts. It is to be sure that some outfits bought parts sets and broke them down to sell the individual parts/pieces/barrels. That would leave "extra" de-milled receivers setting somewhere in a warehouse.
Now, for a bit of speculation as RARELY does anyone in this business divulge anything!
Remember SARCO is a big parts house and surely does business with the importer and has ties to IMA. Also, Interordnance imported MG42's and MG-3's. They also sell parts and would have had receiver parts available (they sure had complete sets of de-milled BREN receivers to sell after all the complete parts sets were all gone)
Also, IMA is a licensed importer in there own right. They have a division in the UK. They have pulled off a few "slick" imports on there own. So, they may even now be importing receiver sections from Canada or Europe. If there is demand someone will meet it.

It will be very tough to get a true idea how many sets of MG42 parts sets are out there. How many did Interordnance import? How many does BRP and TNW have "stashed"? How many were sold to be broken down as just parts?
There are a lot more questions than there are answers.
Hope I was able to at least give you a clearer picture of this "murky business"!

[KMURPHY]

nicley said.......i need some sections for sure

[PvtJoker]

I appreciate that, Sledge. But it does make the question of whether or not an investor could honestly be asked to put $50,000 or more into making these and expecting a fair ROI given the limited market and the price they would have to sell at each to recoup and pass the net break-even point. Not to rain on anyone's parade, but there is also the question of what may happen after January- will there still even BE a legal market for parts kits anymore once Nazi-Pelosi gets in there? Or will the other Dems who just got back in power keep her in check (as they just did with Murtha) in order to have a chance of keeping their own political fortunes alive in 2008? It's one thing to risk a grand or two on an individual SA-42 project, but to put in $50,000 on that roll of the dice? After the internet bubble of '02 burst, I would think that the venture capitalists out there now might be a little more risk adverse than that. But hey, you never know, and it only takes one with deep pockets to make it fly. But the MBA in me says that I'd personlly want more ducks lined up in rows and more cats herded before I'd drop that kind of coin in such a proposition- and I love the SA-42s!

[PvtJoker]

Now here's an alternative that MIGHT be cheaper and easier to make happen- why not see if you can get the cam sections (and maybe nose pieces? ) sub-contracted out and see if bringing that section to market might be any cheaper? It may still be cost prohibitive; I don't claim to know the details of stamping and die-making business. But it might be a good compromise on a part that is not readily available and the money out of that might be usable to bootstrap up the complete stampings.