www.MG42.us

A very interesting post on SubGuns. No more CLEO signoff on form 1 and 4 for NFA transfers.

According to Jeff Follider from NFATCA "The CLEO thing has been approved by ATF and DOJ. We are waiting for the new forms to be designed by OMB and then the whole shebang published in the Federal Register. Once that is done, it's over. All except for the flood of apps from places that never had a sign off! I can only imagine
what will happen with wiat times."

Hey gulfstream;...where in SubGun.com did you find this?.....I can't find it.

Try under NFA message board.

http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=772800

The CLEO signature requirement appeared to me to have a useful purpose, if you want government to track NFA weapons in a practical manner. Assuming that BATFE did NOT perform a background check, the check would be done locally by the local Police Department or Jurisdiction. I do think it is a good idea that SOMEONE do a background check as part of an NFA firearms transfer. If the CLEO signature is a duplication of that effort, it should be removed.

Gulfstream, thanks.......
..We were just talking about this over there in SubGuns Chat room...

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS wrote:The CLEO signature requirement appeared to me to have a useful purpose, if you want government to track NFA weapons in a practical manner. Assuming that BATFE did NOT perform a background check, the check would be done locally by the local Police Department or Jurisdiction. I do think it is a good idea that SOMEONE do a background check as part of an NFA firearms transfer. If the CLEO signature is a duplication of that effort, it should be removed.

ATFE is required (and always has been) to do a 50 state back ground check via the FBI on all NFA transfers. The first step, with the CLEO approval just "appeared" on the form 4 some many years back. It was supposed to weed out applicants who could not pass a local "wants and warrants" search at the start of the process, but soon turned into a way for some local law enforcement officials to stop transfers by not allowing them to get started in the first place. The passing of this CLEO requirement procedure back to the original process will be a welcome change for those qualified applicants living in jurisdictions where the local law enforcement officials will not sign for political reasons. If this change is approved, it will probably take some good amount of time. The OMB comment period, final sign off by all involved Govt agencies and the final printed form changes could take a bit of time.JH

Because some CEO's will only sign for God or some one that makes major donations to their election fund.

Later 42rocker

Until the laws change here in Wisconsin this dosen't help us.

...I still gotta send CLEO notification for my C&R renewal...

the CLEO has'nt the power to decline an applicant based on political mind set . the only way the CLEO can stop the applicant process is that a crime or domestic battery has arised. the ATF is the one that determines eligibility. you can get approved by ATF, even if the CLEO does'nt sign. the copy of paper work remains with the CLEO files and does'nt go to the ATF anyhow.

The only purpose registration serves is to facilitate confiscation! This is another good step to resecuring our RKBA. Remember, the laws requiring registration were put in place to STOP the American People from buying firearms. In fact, when the tax stamp law was originally passed, the US government REFUSED to sell any tax stamps and it wasn't until the Supreme Court ruled that the US government HAD to sell the tax stamp that the American People got the opportunity to buy the regulated firearms. Never forget, the original cost of the tax stamp was set too high for the average American to afford one which meant it was only possible for the rich to afford the tax stamp making those eligible to buy the regulated firearms a very small minority. The truth of the matter is criminals don't care about the cost of tax stamps or firearms regulations and will get any firearm they want to break the law. For those who don't understand, registration is not about crime, it is about preventing the American People from getting firearms.

Thomas E. Maloney SR

I would add that securing a CLEO approval signature also contributed to the inflated price of transferable and CnR weapons. Does anyone else see a significant reduction in prices with the end of the CLEO signature? I haven't tracked any state gun laws in a while but are restrictive states now opening up to Class III?

Taurus454 wrote:The only purpose registration serves is to facilitate confiscation! This is another good step to resecuring our RKBA. Remember, the laws requiring registration were put in place to STOP the American People from buying firearms. In fact, when the tax stamp law was originally passed, the US government REFUSED to sell any tax stamps and it wasn't until the Supreme Court ruled that the US government HAD to sell the tax stamp that the American People got the opportunity to buy the regulated firearms. Never forget, the original cost of the tax stamp was set too high for the average American to afford one which meant it was only possible for the rich to afford the tax stamp making those eligible to buy the regulated firearms a very small minority. The truth of the matter is criminals don't care about the cost of tax stamps or firearms regulations and will get any firearm they want to break the law. For those who don't understand, registration is not about crime, it is about preventing the American People from getting firearms.

Thomas E. Maloney SR

So, are you're saying you don't register yours?

You're preaching to the choir here. We all know the rant.

There's only one game to play, and ATF makes the rules. No sense whining now about what was done 80 years ago. Just be happy that it's one step easier.

Change what can be changed, and learn to live with the rest.

I don't see a correlation between a CLEO signature and prices..... care to expound on that mp44dude?

Class 3 owners are the best behaved gun owners in the country....When it comes to using a NFA firearm in an chargeable offense, it hardly happens.
.......What is tragic, but ironic, about 6-7 years ago in freekin non-NFA New Jersey, a policeman, who had a MP-5 assigned to him, used it in killing a couple who lived around the corner from his home, in a domestic arguement.
...The average guy in NJ can not own a Class 3 fireaem, but a jerk cop is assigned one, then uses it to settle an argument....That story disappeared pretty quickly too.

jbaum,

The amount of papered weapons prior to 68 and the 86 is the greatest determining factor in supply side; access on the demmand side.

I have always correlated the extraordinarily high class III prices with the difficulty in aquiring (access) a transferable weapon.

It's difficult to get the signature for very few people overall. Most CLEOs sign off with no trouble. A refusal for CLEO signature doesn't make the guns any more expensive than they already are, if anything, it would limit the demand and drive down prices for the rest of us. However, I doubt that it actually does that to any noticeable degree.

if you have a business, incorporate it, then have the corporation purchase the item.

Cost determined on supply....... Machineguns wouldn't be the first product like that.

Taurus454 wrote: when the tax stamp law was originally passed, the US government REFUSED to sell any tax stamps and it wasn't until the Supreme Court ruled that the US government HAD to sell the tax stamp that the American People got the opportunity to buy the regulated firearms.

Can you provide a reference to this case?
I would think it would be a foundation to overturn the current MG ban.