Stolen MGZ40 (from me!) Now offered on ebay!!

[Schnee]

I called ebay earlier today. They would do nothing. I called paypal, they were a little more sympathetic but would do nothing. Both said the same "to protect buyer and seller we are not allowed to divulge personal information....", so I bought a cheap piece or crap watch from the guy for 15 dollars through "ebay buy it now" and then requested his user information. Had is name and address and phone number in less than a minute. Then I followed up with the Sheriff in his county. Reported it stolen in mine. The two departments are now in touch and the seller will be notified that he is in possession of reported stolen property, even if he bought it in good faith, it is illegal for him to dispose of it now.

The Post office and FBI Mail Fraud Division are getting called in the morning. The rest of the day will be wasted getting all the info and photos and other stuff ready for them.

It would be nice to get the scope after a year and all the trouble, time wasted looking but I am not holding my breath.

[Blanksguy]

The best I could do was an e-mail reply asking what my questions were.

E-Bay won't help in any of this. They are set up to just ignore you when it comes to legal issues (company-protection).......and looks like they won't help much on the $$$ side unless you "buy it through their "buyer's-club" (?-or whatever they call it.).

I wonder how much of this stuff goes on through E-Bay (?).

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[Schnee]

Ebay is flooded with scams and crooks. I rarely sell on there anymore. I try to avoid paypal as well. All my personal and business sales have gone to gunbroker. Paypal's buyer protection is biased towards the buyer and is border line criminal in my opinion.

The wheels are turning on the MGZ40. I finally talked to the seller. He says it was acquired through a Post Office Auction and refuses to give me anymore information until it is sold on ebay or unless I buy it from him.

[bmwr12]

Ebay is flooded with scams and crooks. I rarely sell on there anymore. I try to avoid paypal as well. All my personal and business sales have gone to gunbroker. Paypal's buyer protection is biased towards the buyer and is border line criminal in my opinion.

The wheels are turning on the MGZ40. I finally talked to the seller. He says it was acquired through a Post Office Auction and refuses to give me anymore information until it is sold on ebay or unless I buy it from him.

Good Luck, If I was you I would take his ass to the cleaners... Do whatever you can to right a wrong.

[Bil]

I have made this into a stickie,so we can be more aware in the future,and maybe find out how to avoid this,and what to do if we don't.Good luck to all of you,nice work on getting the name and address.Criminal charges should be pressed,on the Federal level if possible.And don't feel sorry for him and just let him give it back.In addition to having known stolen property,he tried to extort money from Bergflak just to get the scope back.Unless he is a Congressman,that is still illegal.Go for the throat. [If that doesn't work,I know some real bad bikers down there! ] ---bil

[Schnee]

I will revise this reply as I get farther down the trail. In case of actual theft when the post office is involved (does not apply towards slow working, exceedingly long turnaround, SOBs like myself) follow the steps below.

Call your local police and report the theft, they will contact the local police of the person in question.

Call the post office inspector gerneral...1-888-877-7644...ask for your local consumer affairs department phone number. The lady I spoke to was actually in Montana and is working to help me. She called me back when she said she would and speaks english and is not reading from a screen of standard responses.

If ebay is involved:

On the actual item page, there is a "report item" link. Report it, tell them it is stolen. They will email you the law enforcement contact link and it marks the auction in the ebay system and provides you with the link via email. Give the link to your local law enforcement.

The FBI will not do anything until the Post Office is involved. I am calling them in a few minutes now that I have my USPS case number set up. More to come....

[Bil]

Thanks for the update,Ryan. ---bil

[Sd.kfz.173]

Bury this SOB under the jail!!



Bill

[Blanksguy]

Guys.......in the end, this all may be an issue that no one can do anything about.
All of the below has nothing to due with Bergflak nor Ryan.

The procedure.....(correct me if I am wrong on any of this)..... is that once a box/item is put into the US postal-System in the USA.....it falls under US Postal-Regulations.
If the package does not make it to the destination, a claim is put in for the "stated-insured-value when first shipped", and the shipper/seller is paid those funds......and the Post-Office writes the box/item off as lost and/or stolen in transit.
Later, those items that cannot be delivered due to non-secure packing, loose item separated from box......items where the adress-label is lost or un-readable, etc... are put up for "auction" (or sale) on the US Postal Web-Page. (IE: Items that the US Post-Office did not list down by serial-number as "stolen" that can not be delivered will be auctioned/sold to help the US Post-Office recomp. some of their loses paid out for "insurance-claims". Items listed down by serial-number would be auctioned off/sold if the shiped/seller was already compensated/paid for their loss $$$$.).

Now.....it the individual on E-Bay bought the item through the US postal "auction"/sale web-page..........then he does have clear title to the item in the USA to do whatever he wishes with it.....and at that point, it is not stolen property.
This is all similar to abandoned property sales.....abandoned vehicle-sales, etc..
It is very hard to show "theft" in this case if the Post-Office is the one who sold the lost-item at their "auction".......it will look more like a lost shipping-label, or "fell-out-of-box" to the authorities with both the customer and the Post-Office being compensated for the item in question.........."BUT" anyone with law-enforcement background on our web-page can explain this in more detail.

Again, this has nothing to do with Bergflak nor Ryan.........I feel bad for their loss, and I wish them luck.........."but" I believe that the authorities will look at the issue as "lost-property in transit that was sold at US Postal-Public-Auction", with the original seller/shipper and/or buyer were compensated within their stated insured value when initially shipping the item........and the Post-Office receiving back compensation from the auction for their insurance-loss.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[salt6]

But was it really bougth at an auction?

[Schnee]

The seller on ebay who has possession of the MGZ40 bought it at a USPS auction. I have not seen any paperwork but that is what they are saying. According to the law, they have clear title to it. However, the post office was in possession of everything they needed to return the items to me. I have been raising hell with the USPS all the way to the top of the Postal Inspector's office. What action they will take is still unknown. The police have taken it as far as they can as well as the FBI fraud department. They have all contacted the USPS and the Inspector General's office has been actively working on the problem.

I have talked many times to the seller who has the scope. They are refusing to return it to the post office and are in the process of having it appraised and currently have it for sale on ebay. Once it is sold, that is it, it is gone.

I can understand the new owner wanting to make money on it as they bought it in good faith and are the legal owners of it now. What makes my blood boil is they have the other items that were in the box as well. They had no clue what they were until I asked them if they had them. I asked if they could at least return those items to me she said they will have to figure out what they are worth and I could buy them on auction. I have never been so mad and disgusted with people in my life as I am with the USPS and this ebay selling couple. They probably sleep well at night. I know I wouldn't.

[Intruder196]

You ought to email him and ask if you can pay in cash and pick it up in person. Then, drive down there and kick his butt and get your scope back.

That would be kind of hard to do from Norway.

[Bil]

That is why you have 'Embassadors',they do it for you.In a case like this,you wouldn't get the one from the Norwegian Legation,much to busy.You send a motorcycle messenger ,from someone like the Road Agents,to deliver a polite message. ---bil

[12thWaffenSS]

After reading through all the posts, I think the issue is with the Post Office and not the seller. In the interests of full disclosure, I do not know the whole truth and I sure as heck am not a part of the deal. However, it is entirely possible that the guy selling the optic on E-Bay truly and legally acquired it from a Post Office auction. I have never heard of such a thing and it does boggle my mind that it was "lost in shipping" and then apparently "recovered" yet sold at an auction. Maybe I should attend one of these auctions and see what shows up. However, can anyone really blame this guy if he really did buy it at an auction and now he's "expected" to just return it? I don't know.

Best of luck to all involved but realistically, I don't see anything good happening to anyone with this situation. I've been burned on lots of deals too. Now I only deal face to face or in small financial amounts to minimize loss.

[Schnee]

The current owner bought it at the monthly USPS auction at the Lost Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta. They have clear legal title to it.

The USPS lost it, had what they needed to recover it, failed to do their job, auctioned it off and now bergflak, myself and the current owner are entangled in a big mess.

The root problem is with the USPS decision (as a budget cut) to stop handling foreign registered mail and packages as if they were registered. They argue that the money is paid at the origin country but is not provided to the USPS to cover costs of handling the item. They now go straight from customs into the regular mail system. The tracking numbers still may be scanned by various places, but not always and usually by your local delivery person but they are not handled as registered. This was a budget cut and one that is causing the USPS an enormous problem.

I lost 11 registered letters last year from Germany, out of 200+ sent to me. A parts lafette I bought was lost through UPS (vanished in Missouri two days before July 4th, the seller shipped it in a brand new grill box he had just bought. That one is not hard to figure out. Somebody wanted a new grill) and of course this MGZ40 problem with the USPS. Throw in my two businesses with slow business, and my failure to keep up with the restoration work I had taken on and really making some fellow collectors angry because of it. Not a good year...

[12thWaffenSS]

The current owner bought it at the monthly USPS auction at the Lost Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta. They have clear legal title to it.

The USPS lost it, had what they needed to recover it, failed to do their job, auctioned it off and now bergflak, myself and the current owner are entangled in a big mess.

The root problem is with the USPS decision (as a budget cut) to stop handling foreign registered mail and packages as if they were registered. They argue that the money is paid at the origin country but is not provided to the USPS to cover costs of handling the item. They now go straight from customs into the regular mail system. The tracking numbers still may be scanned by various places, but not always and usually by your local delivery person but they are not handled as registered. This was a budget cut and one that is causing the USPS an enormous problem.

I lost 11 registered letters last year from Germany, out of 200+ sent to me. A parts lafette I bought was lost through UPS (vanished in Missouri two days before July 4th, the seller shipped it in a brand new grill box he had just bought. That one is not hard to figure out. Somebody wanted a new grill) and of course this MGZ40 problem with the USPS. Throw in my two businesses with slow business, and my failure to keep up with the restoration work I had taken on and really making some fellow collectors angry because of it. Not a good year...

Okay, I'm dumb and I need you to explain this to me. What is the benefit to stealing registered letters? A package I can maybe see, but a letter?

Also, as a side note, you were mailed 200+ registered letters? Holy $hit! Am I missing something here?

Atlanta? Why am I not surprised this is happening in the "Dirty Souf"?

I guess I still can't wrap my head around how the USPS "lost" it and then how when they did "find" it, they didn't know who to send it to. Maybe we'll never know. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Schnee]

I buy lots of German photos on ebay.de and from other photo collectors - mostly of the MG Wagen and Zwillingssockel. It only costs a couple of euros to send it registered and most sellers and dealers insist on it, that is why I get a lot of them. I send them all to a relative in Germany now and pick them up once a year. It is inconvenient, but I do not lose them.

If you are a crooked USPS employee and you know foreign registered mail is not handle like registered anymore why not steel a few to see if you can score some easy cash? Somewhere there are 11 really nice MG Wagen photos in a trash bin.

When an item is the hands of the USPS and it is undeliverable, for example, the address label comes off or is damaged in transit and unreadable or incomplete, it is sent to the lost mail recovery center in Atlanta. According to the internet, over 90 million pieces of mail annually end up there. Undeliverable letters are destroyed. Tangible items like books, cds, movies, MGZ40 optics...are sold after 90 days. The post office advertises on the website one auction a month. They make little effort to match up items with requests like the one I sent in March of 2009. My certified letter was mailed on March 23rd with all the info, photos, description that they needed to identify it. They did not receive the letter until June 12th. No doubt my letter sat in a massive pile of "find my item" requests until it was scanned in. I doubt it was opened.

I do not know when the item was auctioned but it was recently. The post office had what they needed to return the scope to me last year and plenty of time to do it. They just do not do the job they are supposed to do. When the Inspector General of the Post Office says to me "I have never seen an item recovered" perhaps they should rename the facility and admit what it really is, a USPS auction house and source of free revenue for them.

The auction ends in three days and the optic will be gone. The wheels are just not going fast enough to get this resolved in three days.

[12thWaffenSS]

I buy lots of German photos on ebay.de and from other photo collectors - mostly of the MG Wagen and Zwillingssockel. It only costs a couple of euros to send it registered and most sellers and dealers insist on it, that is why I get a lot of them. I send them all to a relative in Germany now and pick them up once a year. It is inconvenient, but I do not lose them.

If you are a crooked USPS employee and you know foreign registered mail is not handle like registered anymore why not steel a few to see if you can score some easy cash? Somewhere there are 11 really nice MG Wagen photos in a trash bin.

When an item is the hands of the USPS and it is undeliverable, for example, the address label comes off or is damaged in transit and unreadable or incomplete, it is sent to the lost mail recovery center in Atlanta. According to the internet, over 90 million pieces of mail annually end up there. Undeliverable letters are destroyed. Tangible items like books, cds, movies, MGZ40 optics...are sold after 90 days. The post office advertises on the website one auction a month. They make little effort to match up items with requests like the one I sent in March of 2009. My certified letter was mailed on March 23rd with all the info, photos, description that they needed to identify it. They did not receive the letter until June 12th. No doubt my letter sat in a massive pile of "find my item" requests until it was scanned in. I doubt it was opened.

I do not know when the item was auctioned but it was recently. The post office had what they needed to return the scope to me last year and plenty of time to do it. They just do not do the job they are supposed to do. When the Inspector General of the Post Office says to me "I have never seen an item recovered" perhaps they should rename the facility and admit what it really is, a USPS auction house and source of free revenue for them.

The auction ends in three days and the optic will be gone. The wheels are just not going fast enough to get this resolved in three days.

Shitty.

[noonxnoon]

Okay, I'm dumb and I need you to explain this to me. What is the benefit to stealing registered letters? A package I can maybe see, but a letter?

Ryan already beat me to it...but it is the same logic people stealing birthday cards or any other 'special' occasion card sent in the mail...they figure there is a chance for money...

...and a registered letter sent overseas means someone went out of their way to 'ensure' of its arrival...and paid more money for that...makes it a better reward for the risk in grabbing it.

I can personally say from experience I had a jerk off mailman that cut open packages...CUT OPEN PACKAGES and grab items from it.

I am disappointed I was 'nice' back then and was more embarassed about it then instead of what I should have done is called the post masters and they setup the jerk and his backside would hopefully be in jail.

Ryan,

Interesting point you made about the US not handling registered letters from foreigners...I send a decent amount of packages to South East Asia & Japan...and whenever they get it, they say they oddly had to pay money for the package...almost as if I sent it COD or something.

Each and every one I have sent has this 'fee' they have to pay...I thought maybe the mailman is trying to get a tip or something in those countries...but now it appears as if the US will accept a good amoutn of money from me to ship stuff...and then the foreign post office needs their cut of the action as well.

...as for these post office auctions...I can't belive they have them...but guess not surprised...reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where Newman gets all that guys stuff because the brother p-touch labels fell off during transit...

With all the problems the postal service is having with trying to get customers...it would seem they could help restore faith in the system by finding the rightful owners for these missing items.

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

So a registered letter is MORE likely to be stolen since it's registered. . . Ain't that F-ing Wonderful!