Demontrooper wrote:Argh, of course I own an MG42! Ok look, my explanation is too complicated a thought for me to put into words, but imagine if the handguards on an AK47 were metal, and they were stamped out with the receiver. The handguards would be classified as a part of the receiver, though they do not aid in the firing complex of the weapon itself. They merely support and protect the barrel and gas system of the weapon, JUST LIKE THE SHROUD ON THE MG42! The shroud is PART of the recoil system on the mg42 it is integral to the function of the weapon
Jeeze, it was just easier and cheaper to stamp out the "handguards (i.e. shroud)" of the MG42 with the damned receiver, which is in the rear of the gun begining at the camming area and ending in front of the buttstock (which is the "rear receiver" as we know it). If the MG34 had it's barrel shroud machined with the receiver, then that barrel shroud would also be part of the "receiver", but dammit its not, just like the barrel shroud of the damned MG42. You guys are driving me crazy!
Are you serious? Do you even own a 42? The rear of the gun does not contain the barrel.....
The camming peice (if one should contend that it is in fact part of the rear of the gun) does house the chamber and barrel. Actually the chamber is in front of the cam section (the barrel ext is "in" the cam section)
It doesn't aid it helping the gun fire? It sure does a good job of holding a barrel straight.
The gun does not need to fire strait to kill people in an illegal reweld of the rear receiver. If you can rest the barrel on a peice of wood, and weld it to the camming peice, then you have a full auto MG42. (I dont think you understand how this gun functions) (the camming peice is what allows the bolt to lock and unlock from the barrel extension(it cams the locking rollers). The barrel must travel rearward so it can move past the cam piece to allow the bolt to unlock from the barrel extension. The booster is required for this to happen now remember the booster is atached to the front of the receiver (shroud). also the barrel stop is required to keep the barrel from flying forward when the recouperator slams the barrel back to it's starting position
The ENTIRE thing is the receiver. And YES the law requires that it be destroyed, and it is the true receiver of the gun.
Duh the whole thing is a receiver (officially), but the law never required that the rear of the receiver be cut into 3 peices like the IMA receivers. The law always said 3 cuts, There is no law that stated 3 cuts it just depended when they were imported and what the atf liked at that time for their demil procedures and I said that they could have cut only the receiver in the rear in 3 cuts, because the front of the receiver not true it was a specific demil the atf said EXACTLY where to cut on the 3 and 4 cut receivers it wasn't just the # of cuts it was the location of the cuts (the barrel shroud) is just a harmless little thing to keep you from burning your hands. please do not go into a rant about the barrel door, changing barrels, and barrel support.
Ultimately; WHY THE HECK DO WE PAY SO MUCH MORE FOR THE REAR RECEIVER THAN THE ENTIRE PARTS KIT COMBINED?! BECAUSE WE CANNOT SHOOT IT WITHOUT THE REAR RECEVIER DAMMIT! THE REAR RECEIVER IS THE RECEIVER, BECAUSE YOU CAN WELD THE BARREL TO IT AND IT WILL SHOOT JUST FINE!
who paid more for the rear than a complete kit?
You need the front just as much as you need the rear. The gun will not function w/ out it. if you try you may kill yourself
I thought I should inject this information as it may help clarify the receiver questions that some folks have.
The Yugoslavian M53's were all brought into the USA by one importer about a year or so ago.
The M53 receiver is a single, complex stamping that extends from the muzzle all the way to the butt.
They all arrived into the "Bond" warehouse (physically in the USA but legally/technically not) as complete machine guns.
BATFE was asked to provide de-mill instruction and did so. BATFE described what was to be torched and what was to be saw cut off and disposed of.
Note that all the rear receiver pieces that are sold are not Yugoslav in origin, they are from older MG42 de-mils.
The importer also made decisions as to what receiver pieces to include (why you don't get the muzzle bearing but do get the long front section). The reason why all the receiver parts are NOT included anymore is ANOTHER story.
Once the receivers are scrap (no longer a firearm) the importer got the parts sets inspected by customs and transfered them from the "bond" warehouse and into the USA warehouse (can be located right next to it). Once through customs/BATFE the sets are available for sale.
I hope this helps some folks understand why these parts sets are sectioned and sold in the manner that we see them now.
wooooowwwwww. do i know how to stir the s__t or what.
i ask this question mostly cause i was considering making my own rear receiver section and would it be legal and if i decided to sell it, would it be considered a firearm . i got my answers and then some.
thanks for all the replys.
stearmandriver- can you post a picture of the diagram showing where the cuts had to be made?
Would it depend on how the demil requirement is set for a particular weapon?
For the 1919 M2/M3 it is the right side plate (RSP) because that is the manufacture's company, weapon description and serial numbered section. Earlier demils of the PM 1910 called for both side plates be destroyed citing ease of manufacture. Now you can find some IMA released LSPs and Orin was able to sell some LSPs awhile back.
Marstars retains the last 2-3 inches of their receivers because that's the Canadian law to retain the SN for proof of destruction and will not realese that tail stub.
So maybe in some small inconsequential way serial numbers have a small play. I know that doesn't sometimes makes sense in all demils as the 3/4 cut MG-42 receivers that were sold seems to suggest. See even BATF rules change for a partcular weapon.
Since the MG-42 stamped receiver is well... like a unibody construction I say it's all a receiver.
Ok, look I know how the MG42 operates, but since nobody wants to comment on the AK47 stamped handguards example, then so be it. Yes of course the entire gun including the shroud is part of the receiver, and yes a welded barrel to the cam peice would not fire for long (maybe one bullet and thats it), but the barrel shroud on the '34 helps with the recoiling barrel just like on the '42. It is just cheaper for the '42 shroud to be stamped out attached to the receiver, rather than be removable like on a MG34.
The shroud on the '42 could have been designed to swing out like on a 34 rather than using a barrel door. If that was the case, then the shroud would not be included as the receiver, and would not have been cut. If I can not get you guys to get past your blinding techno-crap and try to use both knowledge of other weapons and your own imaginations, then I could get you to understand what I am trying to say.
LOOK AT THE SPANISH CETME AMELI 5.56, I do not beleive that the shroud on that is stamped with the receiver.
Closing comment; I do have a complete parts set with receiver, pending funds for the rewelding etc. I have played with the parts enough to understand how the whole gun operates, and I have been studying the '42 for years. I am generalizing on the 3 cut law thing dammit. Read my other posts before you start to accuse me of ignorance. I am done with this topic, hope jet489 got some help by sifting through all of the worthless responses to my suggestions.
I think you should study your parts kit some more. You said that an mg42 would fire full auto with just the rear receiver piece with the barrel welded to the cam piece. That's totally wrong. You obviously don't understand how the gun cycles.
Guess what? The mg42 doesn't have a handguard!
You dont understand the gun. The shroud aka receiver is essential to operation of the weapon.
I dont understand why you bring the cetme into this? that makes no sense at all. whats your point
You have conflicting viewpoints. Sometimes you say it is part of the receiver and sometimes you say it is not.
Demontrooper wrote: *snip* but since nobody wants to comment on the AK47 stamped handguards example, then so be it. yes if the ak handguard was part of the receiver then it would be the receiver. however a ak will work just as well w/o a handguard as w/ one. as posted through out this thread the mg42 will not function w/o the "shroud". Yes of course the entire gun including the shroud is part of the receiver, and yes a welded barrel to the cam peice would not fire for long (maybe one bullet and thats it), it would depend on what position you welded the barrel in if it would even fire ONE bullet. if you could manage to weld it in it's normal forward position then you would get it to fire once but the bolt would never unlock from the barrel after that. if you welded it in the rearward position the bolt would never lock and it would never fire but the barrel shroud on the '34 helps with the recoiling barrel just like on the '42. It is just cheaper for the '42 shroud to be stamped out attached to the receiver, rather than be removable like on a MG34.
*snip*
LOOK AT THE SPANISH CETME AMELI 5.56, I do not beleive that the shroud on that is stamped with the receiver. It is a delayed blowback operating system (G3, cetme,) it's like a hk23 w/ a mg3 topcover.
