Wehrmacht MG42 Qualification Test

[Taurus454]

I have several WW2 weapons qualification cards and one book. Does anybody know what the original Wehrmacht MG42 Qualification Test consisted of? I would like to see if I can qualify myself on the MG42 using the original standard and course set-up.

Thank you for your time and consideration!

[Chuckm]

Check in Folke Myrvangs book, pp 305-330 for the Training Course that was used.

Good Luck,

Chuckm

[0321USMC]

So you're saying that if we don't have 'the book' we're just plain SOL? Only the privileged few can know. No one wants to give a quick layout of the qual course for a huh?

[Bil]

I am thousands of miles from my book.I don't quite understand your last post-please elaborate.Thanks. ---bil

[JBaum]

While the MG34/42 book has training guidelines in it, it does not contain an actual schedule of activities for qualification on the MG.

I haven't yet seen a book or manual that does, although I would expect one to be out there somewhere.

In short, yup, SOL sums it up.

[blackreichswehr]

tauras 454/0321usmc, probably no different than gualifying with the m1 rifle, you just need the m1 pencil, you probably don't know what that is. I would venture to say, burst fire & the value of fire control, short burst, rapid target engagement, dispersion of fire, engagement of staggered targets, for light MG useage. For heavy, traverse fire W/searching fire, traverse fire W/searching fire and multiple targets. For AA, light and heavy MG, shooting down a fast moving airplane. from Myrvang's publication. the above would be for the soldier,as for the Volkssturm, get into tall building with an open window, shoot at anything that moves till the barrel is cherry red.

[Bil]

You forgot the last step-take off the armband and RUN!!

The Myrvang book is no big secret society thing,relatively inexpensive,full of info on the 34 and 42,and can even be found in a good library. Like I said,miles from my copy. ---bil

[Taurus454]

LOL! Yeah, I got the M1 pencil joke, never needed one like you though Was always able to qualify expert for real. I'm just amazed that none of you "hardcore" guys thought about qualifying on the MG42 or MG34 like the "real soldiers" did back in the day! Come on guys, think about it How cool would that be to qualify for record on the MG42 or MG34? Your qualification should at least be an award on this site.

Tom

[Bil]

For a real test,set up the lafette and using all the correct tools and settings,lay down suppressing fire on a pre-determined hillside 1/2 mile away,using the fire control mechanism! ---bil
When I get home,I will see what I can find for you-only because it says USMC after your name!

[JBaum]

Don't forget indirect aiming. The enemy is in the valley on the other side of this hill.

Everyone get your deckungswinkelmesser out and lets set up a base MG with the aiming circle. Triangulation slide rules ready? OK, calibrate your distance measurer and let's get to it.

And if you're wondering, yes, I have a manual for that.

[Bil]

Ahh-accurate plunging fire! The Germans were the masters of getting the most use from the MG,both wars. ---bil

[0321USMC]

Sorry, don't know what an M1 pencil joke is. Shot lots of M-1 rifles and M-60's, tanks and M.G.'s. Knew how to sight in all of these but haven't touched one in over 30 years. So just a little clue would be nice, thanks.

[blackreichswehr]

the m1 pencil--my father was in the 82nd AB during WW2, talking with him one day about the guys in his outfit he said, most of the guys were not city fellows,and grew up hunting. i said, so most of you were good shooters? my father replied, hell we were all expert rifleman. i said, how can that be? my father said, you had a buddy that scored you and you scored him-- the pencil you recorded the score with became the m1 pencil.

[42rocker]

Ok, lets set the date, next year Bil's house April 1st. 2012 at high noon.
That time and place, John B using his books will lead at least 3 mg42 machine gun crews in a indirect live fire exercise using mg42/m53 and lafette's and MG Z 40's (optics's) to see if at 3,000 meters (that's approx 1.8 miles) we can deliver a fly swatter style hit on a target.
I was first posting this a little tongue in cheek.... But in thinking about this... THIS would be a really GREAT OUTING......
Don't have JBaum's book in front of me about this, but I seem to remember it's in one of the books and doable. Think about the math trying to link together 3 different machine gun nests to deliver their fire on the same place...... Ok, those of you that have worked with timed arrival of artillery fire from different position's might think this would be easy,,, buttttt. 3 or more machine gun pits, different height's and different angles, of course all within say 200 yards of each other....
WOW,,, helped to shoot up a few cars in the past from Fla to Minnesota... But, being part of a live fire crew,,, trying to set up everything first then opening fire at a distance where it would take a really good scope to see what happened 3,000 meters away. Not just search fire or walk it in.... But planned out.....
Ok, What about it..... Has anyone in the past done anything like this???????

A little off topic, but still on "Qualification Test" idea, as the German Army did (according to JBaum's book's) training such as this....
If not Bil's house, really anyone know of an area near the creek where some of use could get together for something like this or anyone have an interest.... I know,,,, LARGE AREA needed,,,, with correct level headed folks with the correct equipment.... But think about how cool to say that you had been part of something like this... That's if it was done right of course and the wrong car or house did not get shot up... Again sorry about having to use DA's truck at that Minnesota shoot last year. Of course I guess that a smaller distance could be used first.... Say the target only 1/2 mile or 1 mile away....

********* Qualification Test ********** Good Luck on finding any of the original Wehrmacht MG42 Qualification Test ... As several folks might be interested in seeing it....

Anyone interested in a shoot with the target 1/2 mile or more away???????
Ok, JBaum brings his deckungswinkelmesser and other equipment and the rest of us bring our "slide rules" and lots of paper. And of course a few mg42' and laffette's and the rest of the needed stuff..... My God, what an interesting field exercise....... Bet no-one has done something like this in years......
Talked with one of my other clients Friday, had not seen Joe in about 3 years. At any rate he was a Master Sargent in the US Army Stationed In Germany. Both his father and father-in-law fought for the Germany Army (did not get released from Russia till 49/50). While there his was able to talk his way into doing several things with the German Army. He did state that he was able to get some of his buddies into training exercises with the East German Army using m3's (post war mg42's). I believe that he stated that he and several others received German training awards, part of joint training in the 50's 60's stuff. Award's may not have been on the mg3's... Next time I see him I'll ask, hope it will not be 3 years before I see him again... He lost his wife during those 3 years...

Later 42rocker

[JBaum]

Setting up 4 MGs parallel to each other using the original equipment of the day for concentrated fire on the target is exactly what is explained in the indirect fire manual. It's totally do-able. Interesting concept. I have a 42, lafette, and deckungswinkelmesser (no MGZ). We'd need a few more guns and lafettes, a few more scopes, the triangulation slide rule, a distance measurer, an aiming circle, and about 2 miles of countryside with no occupants.... the last one would be the hard part. Several thousand rounds of 8mm, and armor shielded video cameras to record the impacts on the dummies and vehicles we'd have in place. Cool.

That's something that hasn't been done in decades.

[mksshoot]

A long way from KC but LOTS of room & LOTS of possibilities- coming up June 3,4,5 Casper Wyoming- Northern Rockies Annual Machine Gun & Cannon Shoot. You can download the flyer at wyonfa.@bresnan.net or search on the net for WYONFA. I couldn't load the link here but I'll post more info later if anyone needs it. All welcome!

[42rocker]

ok, I think this is starting to go off on the topic that started... I think I'll repost my post and others as the start of a new topic area... This is getting interesting.....
John, have a mgz and a mgz40, I can only use one at a time, so you would be welcome to use one of them... I just glanced at my Myrvang and on page 343 it shows a brief part of the exercise with (as you stated) 4 machine guns. I know that I could not be ready for a June 3,4,5 Casper Wyoming- Northern Rockies Annual Machine Gun & Cannon Shoot. That's this year, maybe next year.... Any other site's????
Anyone really interested?????? I could see a lot of email's and planning to do something like this....

Off to start this on a new topic..

Later 42rocker

[0321USMC]

mksshoot, Thanks for the link. Am in NW Wyo, hope to make it down.

and thanks to you others for the clue on the M-1 pencil, about the same size as an M-14 pencil I would assume !!!

[42rocker]

working link to site

http://www.wyomingnfa.com/857.html

later 42rocker

[Taurus454]

The pencil was also used to poke holes in the target. You had to turn in your target so someone could independently score you. It was easy to tell the cheaters. Just look for the pencil marks on the paper where the fake bullet holes were made by the pencil.

Tom