Question on how to transfer and ship NFA firearms

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Hi guys...

I want to buy a NFA firearm (C&R) from another fellow who lives in another State. My FFL says there might be a way for the transfer from the the current owner to him without paying the $200 transfer tax, just submitting the paperwork. I have SERIOUS doubts. Neither me nor the current owner have an FFL or SOT. Is this really possible? All my previous C&R MG transfers required TWO Form 4's and paying the BATFE two payments of $200. One from the current owner to my local FFL, then one from that FFL to me. Can you guys describe in detail how you handle these things?

[JBaum]

Get a C&R FFL.... it's $20 for 3 years, and will allow you to transfer the gun directly to you from out of state. That's how I got my MG42, so I know it works. When the seller lets you know the transfer paperwork has arrived, go pick it up, or have it mailed to you.

Fill out the Form 4 with your C&R FFL info listed on the back in the FFL section. One transfer tax is all it takes, and you can get any other C&R guns from out of state that way too - pistols, rifles, whatever, as long as it's on the C&R list. I bought a WW2 pistol from a guy in Oregon or Washington that way, and have bought rifles out of state too. If it's an out of state dealer, he just puts the C&R info in his book. Buying an MG from a dealer or private owner out of state is simple, so long as it's on ATF's C&R list. The list is available from ATF's website. There is no second tax this way.

Ship it by registered US Mail. Everyone who has possession of it has to sign for it along the way. Or, you can pick it up. Having a C&R FFL allows you to transport the gun out of state without filing paperwork. For instance, no transportation paperwork is needed to take a C&R machinegun to Knob Creek from another state. However, traveling through states that don't allow MGs is a potential problem. I don't know the rules about that for sure, so I won't make a firm statement about it.

Having a C&R license is a separate thing from any other licenses. I have a friend who has an SOT license, a regular FFL, and a C&R license for his personal collection. He's an attorney, and has even been audited by ATF with no problems.

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I DO NOT want to get a C&R license, John ole buddy! Sorry, but I have my reasons. I just want to know the ins and outs and details of transferring it WITHOUT SOT's.

Can anyone answer my SPECIFIC question? If it possible to transfer a C&R MG across states with only ONE $200 transfer payment between two NON-SOT persons using the services of FFL's?

[JBaum]

No.

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Thanks John! Now I can proceed.. .

[weasel_master]

John, I believe it's $30 for 3 years on the C&R. At least that's what I seem to recall paying for mine.

[amafrank]

Here are some basic rules for transfers...
It doesn't matter where it comes from or who its transferring to, if it comes from out of state, in state or from your sisters boyfriend....it will transfer with tax due if it comes from someone who does not have a dealers FFL and pay the special occupational tax (SOT). The only exceptions to this (of course there are exceptions, the govt is involved), is if the item is transferring from a govt entity like a police dept or museum etc. In that case the first transfer is tax free....

If it comes from out of state it must transfer to an FFL holder first. It can be a C&R FFL, type 1 (standard dealer) FFL, type 7 manufacturer etc. If these guys have not paid the SOT there will be a transfer tax due regardless of whether its coming from a dealer or not. If they are SOT's than they will be either a class 3 dealer or class 2 manufacturer and the item can transfer tax exempt from a dealer in any state to them. Once the FFL holder has the item in your state it can transfer to you tax paid on a form 5320.4 (form 4). Dealer to dealer (SOT dealers) will transfer guns tax exempt between themselves on form 5320.3's (form 3).
Firearms that are registered as unservicable are DEWAT's and transfer tax free using form 5320.5 (form 5) but still have the same requirements for registration and transfer.

So to answer your question in particular the answer is No, there is no legal way to transfer the weapon from the non-dealer out of state owner to your in state dealer without paying the tax. It will need to be transferred via a tax paid form 4 from the owner to your dealer and then from your dealer to you on a tax paid form 4 for a total of $400 in transfer taxes if it not an AOW. The tax on AOW's is $5.

For a little background, I'm a class 2 manufacturer which means I have a type 7 FFL which is a license to manufacture other than destructive devices and I pay the special occupational tax to manufacture and deal in NFA weapons. I've been licensed for 9 years and playing with machineguns etc for about 30 years. I don't know everything and the rules change fairly frequently so no one knows it all...I do have a pretty good handle on stuff though and I'm happy to help out with questions like this.

Hope that helps
Frank

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Thanks amafrank! I and the current owner have come to the same conclusion. Two transfers are required. It's great to have friends here who can steer you right.

You guys ROCK.
(Except for Bil... I haven't quite figured out what he does yet . . . )






Okay.. You ROCK too, Bil.

[Bil]

Also that other stuff I do.... ---bil

[Dan@AngolaArmory]

DA,Best to listen to Frank here (it appears you already have) he is the Voice Of Reason, to be sure. Frank is a good guy, I've known him for awhile, you can trust his advice.
Dan

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Hey Dangola... I can always count on you guys. I have done a few transfers, but when you hear rumors about changes, you have to look into them. You guys rock.