why is only part of it considered the receiver?

[jet489]

can anyone tell me why the back section of the receiver is considered the receiver by BATF.

when these guns were manufactured the barrel shroud and rear receiver where all one piece(a receiver),after they are demilled only the rear section is considered the receiver.

so why is it considered a violation of the national firearms act to manufacture the rear part of the receiver or to have an ffl to sell it when it is only part of the receiver?

if the rear section is considered the receiver then why do they(dealers) have to torch cut the barrel shroud?

on batf's websit hey have a guidebook that you can download,in this guidbook they show how to demill several guns but not mg42. it says in a note- additional illustrations and guidelines for firearms not addressed in this
guidebook can be obtained from atf's firesarms technology branch. i would like to see their guidlines for demilling the mg42.

[Cpt_Kirks]

That is a new one to me.

Where did you hear that?

[IMBLITZVT]

Are you looking for logic from the ATF? If so stop and try not to think... "its the way God wants it to be"

[none123]

so why is it considered a violation of the national firearms act to manufacture the rear part of the receiver or to have an ffl to sell it when it is only part of the receiver?

i'm not sure who told you the rear section was the receiver but they were wrong

it's all the receiver, people just call the front the barrel shroud. You can't (currently)impot a complete front section just as you cant import a complete rear section. however you can buy one(allready here) that was demilled in the past that is a complete front or rear

you can(if they wver make more) buy the complete (new) rear section from BRP

[IMBLITZVT]

"
it's all the receiver, people just call the front the barrel shroud. You can't (currently)impot a complete front section just as you cant import a complete rear section. however you can buy one(allready here) that was demilled in the past that is a complete front or rear

you can(if they wver make more) buy the complete (new) rear section from BRP"

I do not think you are right.

http://www.brpguns.com/42semikit.htm

Note you can buy a complete front half. HOWEVER you have to buy an 80% back... because that is the receiver section.

I think you could import a front half...but who knows. But the back is the receiver. Often the atf makes you demil more then just the receiver....ie trunnion... (note the PPSH41 and interondance!)

[none123]

"
it's all the receiver, people just call the front the barrel shroud. You can't (currently)impot a complete front section just as you cant import a complete rear section. however you can buy one(allready here) that was demilled in the past that is a complete front or rear

you can(if they wver make more) buy the complete (new) rear section from BRP"

I do not think you are right.

http://www.brpguns.com/42semikit.htm

Note you can buy a complete front half. HOWEVER you have to buy an 80% back... because that is the receiver section.

I think you could import a front half...but who knows. But the back is the receiver. Often the atf makes you demil more then just the receiver....ie trunnion... (note the PPSH41 and interondance!)

The rears that ima has were complete. IMA decided to protect themselves and and cut them into mutiple sections. Also BRP was selling complete (scrap/dummy) rear sections last year (minus the buffer cams and grip mount)

Show me one refrence that states the rear section is the receiver.

[IMBLITZVT]

The rears that ima has were complete. IMA decided to protect themselves and and cut them into mutiple sections. Also BRP was selling complete (scrap/dummy) rear sections last year (minus the buffer cams and grip mount)

Show me one refrence that states the rear section is the receiver.

Yeah my guess is they had to demil them. They cut the front off with a saw back in the day and then had to destroy them...so they 3 torch cut them.

BRP sold them with a huge total bolt block in and no rail...etc. making it an 80%. Much like their dummy receivers that they sold...if not exactly the same.

I do not have a certain reference to the back being call the receiver but the front is considered a barrel shroud so what is the back, where all the serial numbers are? Just because they are really one piece does not really mean they are the same part to the atf. I could be wrong BUT show me where a rear section, the receiver, is sold without bolt block, where all it needs is the front half welded on?

Remember the ATF is making people destroy more then just the receivers these days....trunnions are also a target. The 4 cut receiver was just to make sure that that rear receiver part had 3 cuts even if the ATF said that the third was at the FH.

Thats the way I think it works...?

[striker754]

THe entire thing is the receiver. Its not a barrel shroud. A barrel shroud is removable. This is part of the receiver. A DP28 has a barrel shroud. The MG34 has a barrel shroud. On the mg42, this is part of the receiver.

[none123]

BRP sold them with a huge total bolt block in and no rail...etc. making it an 80%. Much like their dummy receivers that they sold...if not exactly the same.

I have one of the rears they were selling last year. There is No bolt block and rails were installed.
i'll post a pic

[none123]

here are some pics (best i can do from work)

[Demontrooper]

Come on guys, we all know that obviously the rear of the receiver is the part that makes the gun shoot. It contains the bolt. The barrel w/ chamber, gripstick and buttstock attach to the rear receiver. The rear receiver fits the profile of the receiver of any other gun in the world, and while the law does not specify that it should be completely destroyed because it officially cannot fire easily; we and the ATF know better.

Though the law does not require that it be destroyed, the ATF identifies it as the true receiver of the gun.

What I wish is that once the ATF recognized that the rear part of the receiver was "evil" was that they would just cut the rear receiver the new way, and just leave the barrel shroud and missing cam sections alone since they do not aid in firing the weapon by carrying the bolt etc.
Of course it would be nice if the ATF supported us (the law abiding collectors) a little more and let the MG42's stay cut the way they were originally (like none123's 3 cut).

Oh well, I guess that Big Brother is afraid that we might hurt ourselves.

[Cpt_Kirks]

The whole thing is the receiver.

It does not come in pieces in "real life". It doesn't function without being complete.

BRP sells (or sold) "dummy" receivers. They were all one piece, but had cut camming pieces, no rail holes and no ejection hole.

IMHO, if somebody wants to weld up a receiver, but weld a plate over the ejection hole, plates over the rail holes and maybe a plate blocking the bolt (like the BRP), it should be considered a "dummy" receiver. Doing the semi mods first would probably be best.

[striker754]

Come on guys, we all know that obviously the rear of the receiver is the part that makes the gun shoot. It contains the bolt. The barrel w/ chamber, gripstick and buttstock attach to the rear receiver. The rear receiver fits the profile of the receiver of any other gun in the world, and while the law does not specify that it should be completely destroyed because it officially cannot fire easily; we and the ATF know better.

Though the law does not require that it be destroyed, the ATF identifies it as the true receiver of the gun.

What I wish is that once the ATF recognized that the rear part of the receiver was "evil" was that they would just cut the rear receiver the new way, and just leave the barrel shroud and missing cam sections alone since they do not aid in firing the weapon by carrying the bolt etc.
Of course it would be nice if the ATF supported us (the law abiding collectors) a little more and let the MG42's stay cut the way they were originally (like none123's 3 cut).

Oh well, I guess that Big Brother is afraid that we might hurt ourselves.

Are you serious? Do you even own a 42? The rear of the gun does not contain the barrel.....

It doesn't aid it helping the gun fire? It sure does a good job of holding a barrel straight.

The ENTIRE thing is the receiver. And YES the law requires that it be destroyed, and it is the true receiver of the gun.

[jet489]

the part about nfa i got from the blueprint of the receiver on this site.

it says (notice- mfg of this assembly by an unlicensed manufacturer is a violation of the national firearms act, for reference use only)
ive also noticed many posts on this site(just like cpt kirks said- IMHO, if somebody wants to weld up a receiver, but weld a plate over the ejection hole, plates over the rail holes and maybe a plate blocking the bolt (like the BRP), it should be considered a "dummy" receiver. Doing the semi mods first would probably be best.) why would you need to do all this if its not the receiver,only part of it.
why would it be illegal for someone like me or anyone else to manufacture the rear receiver section? its not a receiver,only part of it.
this is what philaord states on their web site.
Note on MG-42 80% receiver:

It is not legal to finish this receiver into a machine gun without the proper license. You can make a non-firearm (DEWAT, blank gun). You do not need to be a licensed manufacturer to make a legal type (semi-auto, single shot) firearm for your own use as long as it is not for resale. Contact ATF for guidelines on the manufacture of legal semi-auto rifles or blank fining devices

and no im not looking for logic from the batf.

[none123]

the part about nfa i got from the blueprint of the receiver on this site.

it says (notice- mfg of this assembly by an unlicensed manufacturer is a violation of the national firearms act, for reference use only)
ive also noticed many posts on this site(just like cpt kirks said- IMHO, if somebody wants to weld up a receiver, but weld a plate over the ejection hole, plates over the rail holes and maybe a plate blocking the bolt (like the BRP), it should be considered a "dummy" receiver. Doing the semi mods first would probably be best.) why would you need to do all this if its not the receiver,only part of it.
why would it be illegal for someone like me or anyone else to manufacture the rear receiver section? its not a receiver,only part of it.
this is what philaord states on their web site.
Note on MG-42 80% receiver:

It is not legal to finish this receiver into a machine gun without the proper license. You can make a non-firearm (DEWAT, blank gun). You do not need to be a licensed manufacturer to make a legal type (semi-auto, single shot) firearm for your own use as long as it is not for resale. Contact ATF for guidelines on the manufacture of legal semi-auto rifles or blank fining devices

and no im not looking for logic from the batf.

your refrences have less to do w/ what's a receiver and more to do w/ what is a MG. De-milling a NFA item is not the same as a title 1 firearm. Think of it like a sten tube. Even if it's a blank tube (correct dia) and you have a sten kit that is constructive intent. You are mixing up different issues

[striker754]

the part about nfa i got from the blueprint of the receiver on this site.

it says (notice- mfg of this assembly by an unlicensed manufacturer is a violation of the national firearms act, for reference use only)
ive also noticed many posts on this site(just like cpt kirks said- IMHO, if somebody wants to weld up a receiver, but weld a plate over the ejection hole, plates over the rail holes and maybe a plate blocking the bolt (like the BRP), it should be considered a "dummy" receiver. Doing the semi mods first would probably be best.) why would you need to do all this if its not the receiver,only part of it.
why would it be illegal for someone like me or anyone else to manufacture the rear receiver section? its not a receiver,only part of it.
this is what philaord states on their web site.
Note on MG-42 80% receiver:

It is not legal to finish this receiver into a machine gun without the proper license. You can make a non-firearm (DEWAT, blank gun). You do not need to be a licensed manufacturer to make a legal type (semi-auto, single shot) firearm for your own use as long as it is not for resale. Contact ATF for guidelines on the manufacture of legal semi-auto rifles or blank fining devices

and no im not looking for logic from the batf.

NFA is regarding assembling a receiver into a machine gun or simple reweld of it with no mods.

You DONT need to do all that. Ever hear of COVER YOUR ASS? Do you have to be 21 to buy long gun ammo from an FFL? No. But some online stores require that to cover their ass. See?

Its not illegal for anyone to make a rear receiver piece.

Look at ANY other gun, does any other gun need additional welding when it has a receiver as defined by the law? NO. Any other gun can be assembled without a welder from a bare receiver. A barrel shroud screws on/pins on/whatever. The "shroud" is part of the reciever on the 42.

In summary, pretty much everything you are talking about is a cover your ass statement regarding machine guns. It's illegal for you to manufacturer machine guns.

And, there is no such thing as 80% or dummy. Its either a firearm or not a firearm.

[Demontrooper]

Argh, of course I own an MG42! Ok look, my explanation is too complicated a thought for me to put into words, but imagine if the handguards on an AK47 were metal, and they were stamped out with the receiver. The handguards would be classified as a part of the receiver, though they do not aid in the firing complex of the weapon itself. They merely support and protect the barrel and gas system of the weapon, JUST LIKE THE SHROUD ON THE MG42!

Jeeze, it was just easier and cheaper to stamp out the "handguards (i.e. shroud)" of the MG42 with the damned receiver, which is in the rear of the gun begining at the camming area and ending in front of the buttstock (which is the "rear receiver" as we know it). If the MG34 had it's barrel shroud machined with the receiver, then that barrel shroud would also be part of the "receiver", but dammit its not, just like the barrel shroud of the damned MG42. You guys are driving me crazy!

Are you serious? Do you even own a 42? The rear of the gun does not contain the barrel.....
The camming peice (if one should contend that it is in fact part of the rear of the gun) does house the chamber and barrel.

It doesn't aid it helping the gun fire? It sure does a good job of holding a barrel straight.
The gun does not need to fire strait to kill people in an illegal reweld of the rear receiver. If you can rest the barrel on a peice of wood, and weld it to the camming peice, then you have a full auto MG42.

The ENTIRE thing is the receiver. And YES the law requires that it be destroyed, and it is the true receiver of the gun.
Duh the whole thing is a receiver (officially), but the law never required that the rear of the receiver be cut into 3 peices like the IMA receivers. The law always (said) *Edit* suggested 3 cuts, and I said that they could have cut only the receiver in the rear in 3 cuts, because the front of the receiver (the barrel shroud) is just a harmless little thing to keep you from burning your hands. please do not go into a rant about the barrel door, changing barrels, and barrel support.

Ultimately; WHY THE HECK DO WE PAY SO MUCH MORE FOR THE REAR RECEIVER THAN THE ENTIRE PARTS KIT COMBINED?! BECAUSE WE CANNOT SHOOT IT WITHOUT THE REAR RECEVIER DAMMIT! THE REAR RECEIVER IS THE RECEIVER, BECAUSE YOU CAN WELD THE BARREL TO IT AND IT WILL SHOOT JUST FINE!

[striker754]

Argh, of course I own an MG42! Ok look, my explanation is too complicated a thought for me to put into words, but imagine if the handguards on an AK47 were metal, and they were stamped out with the receiver. The handguards would be classified as a part of the receiver, though they do not aid in the firing complex of the weapon itself. They merely support and protect the barrel and gas system of the weapon, JUST LIKE THE SHROUD ON THE MG42!

Jeeze, it was just easier and cheaper to stamp out the "handguards (i.e. shroud)" of the MG42 with the damned receiver, which is in the rear of the gun begining at the camming area and ending in front of the buttstock (which is the "rear receiver" as we know it). If the MG34 had it's barrel shroud machined with the receiver, then that barrel shroud would also be part of the "receiver", but dammit its not, just like the barrel shroud of the damned MG42. You guys are driving me crazy!

Are you serious? Do you even own a 42? The rear of the gun does not contain the barrel.....
The camming peice (if one should contend that it is in fact part of the rear of the gun) does house the chamber and barrel.

It doesn't aid it helping the gun fire? It sure does a good job of holding a barrel straight.
The gun does not need to fire strait to kill people in an illegal reweld of the rear receiver. If you can rest the barrel on a peice of wood, and weld it to the camming peice, then you have a full auto MG42.

The ENTIRE thing is the receiver. And YES the law requires that it be destroyed, and it is the true receiver of the gun.
Duh the whole thing is a receiver (officially), but the law never required that the rear of the receiver be cut into 3 peices like the IMA receivers. The law always said 3 cuts, and I said that they could have cut only the receiver in the rear in 3 cuts, because the front of the receiver (the barrel shroud) is just a harmless little thing to keep you from burning your hands. please do not go into a rant about the barrel door, changing barrels, and barrel support.

Ultimately; WHY THE HECK DO WE PAY SO MUCH MORE FOR THE REAR RECEIVER THAN THE ENTIRE PARTS KIT COMBINED?! BECAUSE WE CANNOT SHOOT IT WITHOUT THE REAR RECEVIER DAMMIT! THE REAR RECEIVER IS THE RECEIVER, BECAUSE YOU CAN WELD THE BARREL TO IT AND IT WILL SHOOT JUST FINE!

It is apparent that you have absolutely no knowledge of the mg42, so I think we can declare your posts null and void. I am willing to bet you have never touched an mg42 if you think it would cycle even once if you welded the barrel to the camming piece and the barrel on a block of wood. How do you think the barrel is going to move back? How do you think the bolt is going to unlock from the barrel?

Do you seriously have an mg42 or just a kit? cause I see you asking about receiver pieces.

[Cpt_Kirks]

If you ever decide to fire an SA42 or MG42 without have the front receiver section, please make a video of the attempt.

I have a mental image of the camming piece, barrel and bolt, flying down range...

[stearmandriver]

Hey, just my little two cents. A month ago I got my approved form 6 to import a MG42 "kit" from Marstar. They sent a diagram showing where the cuts had to be made and said that the forward section was allowed to be imported, and granted me a variance to import the cut rear reciever chunks. Neat huh. No barrel though. unfortunately, Marstar wanted $940 for the kit, a true WWII one. I decided on the $250 kit from SOG. BTW, I still don't know how these things work yet, but I'm listening and learning. Just thought I'd stir the pot a bit.