Qustion for the big legal brains among us...
Qustion for the big legal brains among us...
Per federal law, can you change stocks on a NON-DETACHEBLE magazine equipped semi-auto rifle (SKS) to a stock with a pistol grip and an adjustable length (non-folding) stock?. I dont give a damn about C&R status. I see nothing in any of the regs regarding this, per 925 it states you can not mfgr a rifle identical to one banned from importation (SKS with detachable magazine) unless you change the parts count. I have been going round and round with some fool on this, and it's getting to me!. What say you?. DK
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drooling idiot
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if it was imported under C&R (has a bayonet for instance) then you need to play the parts game if you change it from its imported condition(wood stock) into a new condition(plastic stock) to be legal IMHO.
"good , bad, .....I'm the man with the gun."
Its amazing anything works right around here with a bunch of
over-age juvenile delinquents running the place.
Its amazing anything works right around here with a bunch of
over-age juvenile delinquents running the place.
D.I., I partially agree with you, my understanding is when you lose your C&R, you have to be in compliance with 922, and thats it......unless you put in a detachable magazine which would violate 925 cuz there is a banned SKS (det mag) and you have just built a weapon identical to a banned non-spaorting gun...... As far as changing any stock, check this copy od a letter out. ATF wrote:
November 6, 2003
Dear Mr. Saands,
This refers to your letter of October 22, 2003, to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Firearms Technology Branch, in which you inquire regarding the installation of a synthetic stock on your Romanian-manufactured SKS Carbine.
Basically, we find that if the rifle has an original fixed, non-detachable magazine, it would not be a prohibited semiautomatic assault weapon (SAW) as defined in the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). (See 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(30).) However, alterations to the rifle may still be prohibited under the GCA, per Section 922(r). This latter section prohibits assembly of certain semiautomatic rifles from imported parts.
With respect to imported part a, one of the GCA's implementing regulations, 27 CFR Part 478 Section 478.39 (formerly part 176/Section 178.39), provides, in part, that no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c} of 476.39 if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under the GCA, Section 925(d)(3), as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. Paragraph (c) includes a list of 20 parts that may be found in a shotgun or rifle.
You should also be aware that the GCA, per 18 U.S.C. Section 922(v), prohibits the manufacture, transfer, and possession of SAWs as that term is defined in the above-noted Section 921(a)(30).
However, Section 922 (v)(2) excludes SAWs that were lawfully possessed under Federal law as of September 13, 1994. Therefore, any weapon that was configured as a SAW after September 13, 1994, or any SAW that was imported after date is prohibited, regardless of its original date of manufacture.
With respect to classifications, an SKS rifle with a fixed magazine is not a SAW; however, an SKS with a detachable magazine and two or more of the following features is a SAW is defined in 921(a)(30)(B):
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action, of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher.
Federal firearms law stipulates that alteration of an SKS so that it meets the definition of "SAW" is unlawful. (Please see the enclosed brochures for further information.)
Based on the above considerations, an SKS with a fixed magazine may be lawfully assembled with the following components:
1. a bipod;
2. a fixed Dragunov style stock incorporating a pistol grip; and
3. a muzzle brake that does not function as a flash suppressor or grenade launcher.
As you describe, the modified SKS Carbine rifle would have a synthetic style stock. Since the rifle would no longer be in its original military configuration, it would no longer be suitable for importation as a curio or relic ("C&R") item under the provisions of 18 U.S.C. 925(e). The rifle would lose its status as a curio and relic and could not be transferred between holders of C&R licenses.
We thank you for your inquiry and trust that the foregoing has been responsive.
Sincerely yours,
Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
650 Massachusetts Ave. N.W.
Room 6450
Washington, D.C. 20226
November 6, 2003
Dear Mr. Saands,
This refers to your letter of October 22, 2003, to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Firearms Technology Branch, in which you inquire regarding the installation of a synthetic stock on your Romanian-manufactured SKS Carbine.
Basically, we find that if the rifle has an original fixed, non-detachable magazine, it would not be a prohibited semiautomatic assault weapon (SAW) as defined in the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). (See 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(30).) However, alterations to the rifle may still be prohibited under the GCA, per Section 922(r). This latter section prohibits assembly of certain semiautomatic rifles from imported parts.
With respect to imported part a, one of the GCA's implementing regulations, 27 CFR Part 478 Section 478.39 (formerly part 176/Section 178.39), provides, in part, that no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c} of 476.39 if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under the GCA, Section 925(d)(3), as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. Paragraph (c) includes a list of 20 parts that may be found in a shotgun or rifle.
You should also be aware that the GCA, per 18 U.S.C. Section 922(v), prohibits the manufacture, transfer, and possession of SAWs as that term is defined in the above-noted Section 921(a)(30).
However, Section 922 (v)(2) excludes SAWs that were lawfully possessed under Federal law as of September 13, 1994. Therefore, any weapon that was configured as a SAW after September 13, 1994, or any SAW that was imported after date is prohibited, regardless of its original date of manufacture.
With respect to classifications, an SKS rifle with a fixed magazine is not a SAW; however, an SKS with a detachable magazine and two or more of the following features is a SAW is defined in 921(a)(30)(B):
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action, of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher.
Federal firearms law stipulates that alteration of an SKS so that it meets the definition of "SAW" is unlawful. (Please see the enclosed brochures for further information.)
Based on the above considerations, an SKS with a fixed magazine may be lawfully assembled with the following components:
1. a bipod;
2. a fixed Dragunov style stock incorporating a pistol grip; and
3. a muzzle brake that does not function as a flash suppressor or grenade launcher.
As you describe, the modified SKS Carbine rifle would have a synthetic style stock. Since the rifle would no longer be in its original military configuration, it would no longer be suitable for importation as a curio or relic ("C&R") item under the provisions of 18 U.S.C. 925(e). The rifle would lose its status as a curio and relic and could not be transferred between holders of C&R licenses.
We thank you for your inquiry and trust that the foregoing has been responsive.
Sincerely yours,
Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
650 Massachusetts Ave. N.W.
Room 6450
Washington, D.C. 20226
Never give a sucker an even break, unless that sucker can break you in even halves!
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schuft
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drooling idiot
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daskraut - i think were in agreement that there are some SKS rifles that can be legally modified more easily than others.
basically ALL rifles and shotguns are banned from importation unless they are deemed sporting or C&R eligible. i would not recommend changing the stock on the Yugo SKS' being imported currently as they have both a bayonet and a grenade launcher , even without the detachable mag. they are only permitted import under C&R because of the military features listed and if you violate the C&R configuration then you have a non-importable rifle.
I've also heard the atf reversed there decision about dragnov stocks not being a pistol-grip , but thats from internet gossip and mostly pointless after the sunset of the AWB.
shuft - you can buy or make an SBR as a citizen in most states . the atf has a site that will send you the forms free to fill out before you do anything to your rifle. if you have a real interest in SBR of other NFA toys you should start a thread about your interest and the members will guide you to what you seek.
basically ALL rifles and shotguns are banned from importation unless they are deemed sporting or C&R eligible. i would not recommend changing the stock on the Yugo SKS' being imported currently as they have both a bayonet and a grenade launcher , even without the detachable mag. they are only permitted import under C&R because of the military features listed and if you violate the C&R configuration then you have a non-importable rifle.
I've also heard the atf reversed there decision about dragnov stocks not being a pistol-grip , but thats from internet gossip and mostly pointless after the sunset of the AWB.
shuft - you can buy or make an SBR as a citizen in most states . the atf has a site that will send you the forms free to fill out before you do anything to your rifle. if you have a real interest in SBR of other NFA toys you should start a thread about your interest and the members will guide you to what you seek.
Last edited by drooling idiot on Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"good , bad, .....I'm the man with the gun."
Its amazing anything works right around here with a bunch of
over-age juvenile delinquents running the place.
Its amazing anything works right around here with a bunch of
over-age juvenile delinquents running the place.
-
drooling idiot
- General
- Posts: 1495
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:30 am
- Location: Philla ,PA