Does anyone have an original soaking can for the front booster for a mg-42?
I have seen ones for a mg-34 not a 42 yet! I would like to buy one!
soaker can for muzzle assembly?
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Abwehr
Soaking Can
I would like to have one of these myself, but I just can't bring myself to pay approx. $150 for one; when they are on e-bay or other auctions.
Maybe someone here can figure out how to make them, then at least we have the tool for the job, even though it would be a reproduction. Dimensions would be helpful too. 
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Abwehr
Soaking Can
WOW, i sure did not know these were that expensive now! I thought $150 was high, but when things are rare, they cost more. It would be nice to have a reproduction can!!!
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JBaum
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For all practical purposes, the MG-42 can looks just like the one on ebay for the MG-34.
Dimensions are for the MG-42 can:
weight is 300 grams (with lid) or about 10.5 ounces, heavy steel construction, blued inside and out
overall height (without lid) is 4.73". with lid screwed on tight overall height is 4.995"
lid is 0.76" high, 2.43" in diameter
outside diameter of the can is 2.125" with no taper
inside diameter of the can is 2.025"
threads are fine, and looks like it's a spot welded on collar rather than being made as part of the can then threaded
the bottom edge of the can is slightly rounded
fine checkering on the outside circumference of the lid on all but one MG-34 can, which has vertical scores for better gripping
The gaskets inside the lids on the MG-42 and MG-08 cans are fiber, like you can get at the car parts store for cutting your own gasket
One MG-34 can has a fiber gasket, the other one has a leather disk
The top of the MG-42 can is marked "Petr.-Büchse" next line: "f.RückstoXverst." next line: z.M.G. 42 ddf", each line is centered on the lid with 0.18" between the lines. Where the X is in the above line is actually a character that looks like a curvy capital B, which represents a double "S"..., it just won't show up correctly in the message.
Letters on the lid are 0.18" high in a sans serif font (such as arial) which is what this board uses.
Waffen proofs on the side on the MG-42 can (WaA 868), on the bottom on one MG-34 can (WaA300), no proof on the the MG-34 can, and none on the MG-08 can. Year 1943 is on one of the MG-34 cans. No year on any other can. Yes, this means I have 4 of the little boogers.
Can you tell I used to do detailing for a mechanical engineer?
Dimensions are for the MG-42 can:
weight is 300 grams (with lid) or about 10.5 ounces, heavy steel construction, blued inside and out
overall height (without lid) is 4.73". with lid screwed on tight overall height is 4.995"
lid is 0.76" high, 2.43" in diameter
outside diameter of the can is 2.125" with no taper
inside diameter of the can is 2.025"
threads are fine, and looks like it's a spot welded on collar rather than being made as part of the can then threaded
the bottom edge of the can is slightly rounded
fine checkering on the outside circumference of the lid on all but one MG-34 can, which has vertical scores for better gripping
The gaskets inside the lids on the MG-42 and MG-08 cans are fiber, like you can get at the car parts store for cutting your own gasket
One MG-34 can has a fiber gasket, the other one has a leather disk
The top of the MG-42 can is marked "Petr.-Büchse" next line: "f.RückstoXverst." next line: z.M.G. 42 ddf", each line is centered on the lid with 0.18" between the lines. Where the X is in the above line is actually a character that looks like a curvy capital B, which represents a double "S"..., it just won't show up correctly in the message.
Letters on the lid are 0.18" high in a sans serif font (such as arial) which is what this board uses.
Waffen proofs on the side on the MG-42 can (WaA 868), on the bottom on one MG-34 can (WaA300), no proof on the the MG-34 can, and none on the MG-08 can. Year 1943 is on one of the MG-34 cans. No year on any other can. Yes, this means I have 4 of the little boogers.
Can you tell I used to do detailing for a mechanical engineer?
Last edited by JBaum on Sun May 28, 2006 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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88comm
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OUTSTANDING details John 
I looked at the one on ebay. AM I right in guessing that it was a drawn tube, and not fully machined? Radiused inside corners tell me a press made the blanks, the male threads were attached and the lid was probably fully machined, or maybe pressed then machined.
Any corrections to my theories?
John, I printed out your specs. Might try one on the lathe. Maybe I can make a few reproductions (no amt marks) and make them available here. Big IF at the moment, but possible.
Thanks
I looked at the one on ebay. AM I right in guessing that it was a drawn tube, and not fully machined? Radiused inside corners tell me a press made the blanks, the male threads were attached and the lid was probably fully machined, or maybe pressed then machined.
Any corrections to my theories?
John, I printed out your specs. Might try one on the lathe. Maybe I can make a few reproductions (no amt marks) and make them available here. Big IF at the moment, but possible.
Thanks
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Reichpapers
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Abwehr
Soaking Can
88comm,
It sure would be nice to have a Soaking Can if you think you can make them for a reasonable price. Please keep us posted if/when you make a prototype! If this does come about, do you think you can find someone to stamp/engrave the data on the lid too?
It sure would be nice to have a Soaking Can if you think you can make them for a reasonable price. Please keep us posted if/when you make a prototype! If this does come about, do you think you can find someone to stamp/engrave the data on the lid too?
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88comm
- Stabshauptmann
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Having a stamp made is entirely possible. Even having one done that is accurate is possible. My inclination would be to have one that is ALMOST perfect. One mark being obviously wrong. Then, when its sold it is obvious to those that know (read that as "us") that it is a reproduction.
J Baum -The soaking container that you have - are there machining marks that tell you it was lathe turned? Any chance it was pressed or spun? Just wondering
J Baum -The soaking container that you have - are there machining marks that tell you it was lathe turned? Any chance it was pressed or spun? Just wondering
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Abwehr
Can
Hey EZFEED,
Yea, can you believe these items are THAT expensive! I hope "88comm" can come up with a good Reproduction of the Can. The posting "88comm" made about a slight change in the stamp to assure we know it is a rero is a good idea! Like I said, I am definetly interested in one the price is reasonable!
Yea, can you believe these items are THAT expensive! I hope "88comm" can come up with a good Reproduction of the Can. The posting "88comm" made about a slight change in the stamp to assure we know it is a rero is a good idea! Like I said, I am definetly interested in one the price is reasonable!
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JBaum
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Well, I wondered if anyone ever read any of those measurements I took.... I guess it took a few days for it to take off.
OK, bright lights, and a magnifying glass. Here we go:
I have no doubts that the can was made on a hydraulic press from a slug of steel covered in graphite to keep it from splitting when it was pressed. I've seen pots made the same way, and I'm convinced it's the easiest, cheapest way. Therefore, it makes sense that it was done that way... we're not talking a gold tea service here, we're talking a can. On 2 of the cans I scan see very fine scoring of the steel the full length of the can, indicating they were pressed from slugs with a little dirt in the graphite or on the steel. Usual for any machine shop. Also, the bottom on the ouside is rounded, on the inside it is a sharp corner. All indicating a die stamped slug of steel that was on a big press.
On the 4 cans I have, all have a ring showing in the steel on the inside bottom of the can. This ring does NOT match up with the booster that was kept in it. The ring is only about 3/4" in diamter, centered on the bottom, and is not visible on the outside. I would bet that it's from the die that was used to stamp it.
The collar was plain steel (not threaded) that was added after the can was pressed. On the MG34 can it was spot welded 4 times, and on the MG42 can (bigger diameter) it has 6 spot welds showing if you look carefully just inside the top. This collar was threaded after it was welded on. It couldn't have been welded after threading without screwing up the threads, and on one of the MG34 cans, I can see scratches where the can started to slip as it was threaded. I've done enough pipe threading with a power threader to know what that looks like.
2 of the 4 lids have faint indications of being pressed too (faint ring in the steel). The outside checkering and lettering (if any) would have been done after it was stamped and threaded.
There may be the tiniest taper inside to be able to pull the press die back out easier... I don't have inside mics that'll reach in that far. There are no milling markes anywhere unless you count the checkering on the outside edge of the lid. It didn't come from a lathe, for sure, and it certainly isn't cast or welded together from tubing.
I don't claim to know it all but:
My guess is that pre-war and early-war cans had an S or P on the cap. Later on they knew they were only going to issue S cans (how much practice with blanks can you need when the war is on? and you don't need extra weight to carry in the field), so they only made S cans and therefore didn't need to mark them. If you only carry one can, you don't have to wonder what it's for. I think the cans made later in the war, like everything else later, didn't have a Waffenamt. I have one for the MG34 that has a stamp, and one that doesn't. The dimensions are identical, and there would be no reason to make them after the war (just pick it up off the ground from someone who didn't need it anymore), so thinking "post-war" or reproduction doesn't make sense. The stamped and waffenamted can I have is blued. The one without stamps is phosphate finished, just like an MP44. It all fits the known pattern of early/middle/late war production (beautiful/functional/it'll do).
As for unmarked cans being made for another gun - I wouldn't have a guess as to what other gun that would be which would require the exact same dimensions. It won't fit the 42 (too narrow, and the 42 is shorter), and I don't know of another gun being made with a booster the size of the 34 (it certainly doesn't match up with my MG08 booster can). And if the same can was used for something else anyway, it wouldn't detract from its value (either to use or collect), so the point is moot.
Production on something like this wouldn't be expensive as far as actually making it goes... what would suck is paying for the die used to stamp it from the slug.
For the record, the highest price I've seen was $331 for an MG34 can which was proofed and dated. It went for that price last summer on ebay. I have it's twin sitting here, and I paid $85 for it. Alright, that was a brag.... sorry. :twisted:
OK, bright lights, and a magnifying glass. Here we go:
I have no doubts that the can was made on a hydraulic press from a slug of steel covered in graphite to keep it from splitting when it was pressed. I've seen pots made the same way, and I'm convinced it's the easiest, cheapest way. Therefore, it makes sense that it was done that way... we're not talking a gold tea service here, we're talking a can. On 2 of the cans I scan see very fine scoring of the steel the full length of the can, indicating they were pressed from slugs with a little dirt in the graphite or on the steel. Usual for any machine shop. Also, the bottom on the ouside is rounded, on the inside it is a sharp corner. All indicating a die stamped slug of steel that was on a big press.
On the 4 cans I have, all have a ring showing in the steel on the inside bottom of the can. This ring does NOT match up with the booster that was kept in it. The ring is only about 3/4" in diamter, centered on the bottom, and is not visible on the outside. I would bet that it's from the die that was used to stamp it.
The collar was plain steel (not threaded) that was added after the can was pressed. On the MG34 can it was spot welded 4 times, and on the MG42 can (bigger diameter) it has 6 spot welds showing if you look carefully just inside the top. This collar was threaded after it was welded on. It couldn't have been welded after threading without screwing up the threads, and on one of the MG34 cans, I can see scratches where the can started to slip as it was threaded. I've done enough pipe threading with a power threader to know what that looks like.
2 of the 4 lids have faint indications of being pressed too (faint ring in the steel). The outside checkering and lettering (if any) would have been done after it was stamped and threaded.
There may be the tiniest taper inside to be able to pull the press die back out easier... I don't have inside mics that'll reach in that far. There are no milling markes anywhere unless you count the checkering on the outside edge of the lid. It didn't come from a lathe, for sure, and it certainly isn't cast or welded together from tubing.
I don't claim to know it all but:
My guess is that pre-war and early-war cans had an S or P on the cap. Later on they knew they were only going to issue S cans (how much practice with blanks can you need when the war is on? and you don't need extra weight to carry in the field), so they only made S cans and therefore didn't need to mark them. If you only carry one can, you don't have to wonder what it's for. I think the cans made later in the war, like everything else later, didn't have a Waffenamt. I have one for the MG34 that has a stamp, and one that doesn't. The dimensions are identical, and there would be no reason to make them after the war (just pick it up off the ground from someone who didn't need it anymore), so thinking "post-war" or reproduction doesn't make sense. The stamped and waffenamted can I have is blued. The one without stamps is phosphate finished, just like an MP44. It all fits the known pattern of early/middle/late war production (beautiful/functional/it'll do).
As for unmarked cans being made for another gun - I wouldn't have a guess as to what other gun that would be which would require the exact same dimensions. It won't fit the 42 (too narrow, and the 42 is shorter), and I don't know of another gun being made with a booster the size of the 34 (it certainly doesn't match up with my MG08 booster can). And if the same can was used for something else anyway, it wouldn't detract from its value (either to use or collect), so the point is moot.
Production on something like this wouldn't be expensive as far as actually making it goes... what would suck is paying for the die used to stamp it from the slug.
For the record, the highest price I've seen was $331 for an MG34 can which was proofed and dated. It went for that price last summer on ebay. I have it's twin sitting here, and I paid $85 for it. Alright, that was a brag.... sorry. :twisted:
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Reichpapers
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JBaum
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Although the markings are the same on the bottom of our soaking cans, the way the bottom of your can was made is different. My is all one piece with rounded edges. Yours looks like the bottom center was made from a different piece of steel then inserted into a tube?
As is usual with this stuff, if you wait for the good deal, you may get lucky and get it cheap. Then again, you may wish you had bought that MG42 FA when it was $4,000.
As is usual with this stuff, if you wait for the good deal, you may get lucky and get it cheap. Then again, you may wish you had bought that MG42 FA when it was $4,000.
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88comm
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JBaum - Thanks again for the second set of details. I thought it might have come off of a press. Should I pursue that route I would have to make them of aluminum or lead 
, as I don't think my press of 10-20 tons will do the job. Without an adequate press my first attempts will be from solid stock, done on a lathe. I could, however then take the turned can, polish it and then press it through a die and make similar striations. That step is probably way down the road.
The can pictured by Reichpapers is another idea (very good pix of the stamps too ). That might be made of extruded tube. The bottom could have a rolled edge, then silver soldered for a 100% seal. Threads, as noted by John, can be a spot welded ring that is then threaded.
The cap, being so much smaller, might be possible on a light press with a red hot disc of metal and several progressive dies. Trimming, threading and knurling would come last, in that order.
When I get to making some parts I will contact you guys for mailing addresses. I can then send them for your review and suggestions before making them available to the rest of the guys.
Any details on the threads? TPI? If I send a cap or can we would want it to thread on to the original. Hey, if we're going to do this, lets do it right
Chris
, as I don't think my press of 10-20 tons will do the job. Without an adequate press my first attempts will be from solid stock, done on a lathe. I could, however then take the turned can, polish it and then press it through a die and make similar striations. That step is probably way down the road.The can pictured by Reichpapers is another idea (very good pix of the stamps too
). That might be made of extruded tube. The bottom could have a rolled edge, then silver soldered for a 100% seal. Threads, as noted by John, can be a spot welded ring that is then threaded.The cap, being so much smaller, might be possible on a light press with a red hot disc of metal and several progressive dies. Trimming, threading and knurling would come last, in that order.
When I get to making some parts I will contact you guys for mailing addresses. I can then send them for your review and suggestions before making them available to the rest of the guys.
Any details on the threads? TPI? If I send a cap or can we would want it to thread on to the original. Hey, if we're going to do this, lets do it right
Chris