www.MG42.us

Lads,

Have any of you ever experienced or seen a TNW Semi Auto Mg34 going full auto? I have a friend from Oklahoma who at one point had a TNW mg34 (he ended up selling it, had issue after issue) anywho he has a video shooting it and its going full auto. He said that is only happened when he used red tipped 8mm blanks and a blank adapter from mg34.com . He also said it was more of a run away gun too. But my question is how legal is it? I mean if it only works with blanks and not live rounds and the weapon is ATF approved then it should be alright, right? I've heard alot of things how it is illegal and would also destroy your mg34 if you made fire FA and its built for SA configuration.

regards,

Sebastian 'cbass' Rupp

A few years ago, a guy had an AR15 with worn fire control group in it which would go full auto. Somebody heard it shooting bursts on a gun range and called ATFE. Short story: He went to jail.

There are no freebies with a gun that shoots more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. ATFE doesn't care if it's a worn part, a stuck firing pin, or some other cause. They will usually prosecute, because they can.

Someone can turn you in if they hear it fire twice in a row, and ATFE will come to get you.

@ Jbaum

Well......thanks for not sugar coating it, pretty clear cut. I guess I wont be doing that.

John's telling it straight. Don't ever mess with the law with regard to guns. Your chances for mercy are rather small.

While I agree with all of the legal points that everyone has pointed out, if I understand the question right the gun is only running away (going full auto) with blanks, not live rounds. I would suggest that the BATF would check the gun for compliance with live rounds and not blanks. I would also suggest, not using blanks in it and do a complete check of the firing system along with a phone call or two to TNW, the manufacture or even returning it to them for repair. As was noted someone hearing the thing go full auto could turn the owner in and cause major headaches as well as cleaning the bank account out for lawyer fees. Just my thoughts Harry

@messerschmittfan:

You can trust ATF to do the right thing if you want to... Some people would respond that integrity hasn't been one of their shining stars lately.

True but in this case if the gun was not modified by the owner then it should go back to the manufacture to get fixed. They were the ones with the approval to manufacture the MG34. Harry

True, and if my grandmother had wheels she could be a wagon, but who's talking about that?

You can introduce as many side arguments as you want about who should fix the gun and exactly what combinations of circumstances cause it to go full auto. Do you think ATF will care about your excuses? The law has no exceptions for facing north and it being the 4th of July at noon. They don't care if it's only full auto with certain ammo and certain parts in it.

If it shoots full auto, it's a machinegun. If it's not registered, it's illegal.

The AR I spoke about above was not modified by the owner. You know, the guy who went to jail for having an unregistered MG?

If they can make it go full auto by taping receiver pieces together with duct tape, it's a machinegun, and they'll go after the owner. That particular case actually happened too.

You want to bet on whether someone else will be sympathetic to your side of the story when they have a track record like that?

I agree that there are some really "crooked" cases on the books, some of the alphabet boys, especially the politically oriented prosecutors, are not interested in the details if they can bend the law; however there are those whom you can talk and reason with. I still think that a blank round does not constitute a real round under the definition of the law as it does not have a projectile. The receiver was manufactured to an approved design and will only shoot semi-auto with live ammo, if I was the owner I would immediately return it to the factory and have them fix it. It would be then be possible to then prove that your intent was to only have a semi-auto rifle and not a full auto blank gun. Also if I were the owner I would also be talking to a gun friendly attorney. I believe this thread started out with a request for help/what should I do or? That is the advice I would provide the owner of the gun and what I would do if I had something like that happen to my TWN or Project Gun MG34 semi-auto rifles. They just work semi-auto, like they were made to. I just purchased an all matching number MG34 parts kit that is going to TWN who will number one of their receivers to the gun and make it a semi-auto. Harry

messerschmittfan wrote: 1. I still think that a blank round does not constitute a real round under the definition of the law as it does not have a projectile.
2. The receiver was manufactured to an approved design and will only shoot semi-auto with live ammo,
3. I believe this thread started out with a request for help/what should I do or?

Reply to #1. And I still think if my grandmother had wheels, she could be a wagon. Both statements are not the subject at hand.
It doesn't make any difference what the legal definition of a "real round" is, if a "real round" can fit in the chamber and fire, it's not a blank/dummy gun, its a real gun. The owner only knows for sure about it firing auto with blanks. If ATF can duplicate that with any other cartridge, its a machinegun. They'll try every brand of commercial ammo, surplus ammo, and hand loads. If it does one double tap, you're had. They will testify in court that the gun is capable of more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. Guilty.

Reply to #2. The gun was modified, then it started shooting full auto. A machinegun was created. The guy at the other end of the firing line with ATF on his cell phone won't know that its shooting blanks at the moment it goes full auto, he'll only know he saw slugs kicking up dirt a few minutes before that. "approved design"? It was a modified design, so all "approvals" are invalid. See "and a blank adapter from mg34.com". As a side note, the MG34.com blank adapter was made for a full auto MG34 to adapt it to shooting blanks on full auto. It wasn't made for anything more than that, so it isn't the manufacturer of that part who caused a problem when the product was misused.

Reply to #3. See the following quote.

cbass wrote: ... But my question is how legal is it? ...

The reality of it's lack of being legal is not questionable. It's illegal. There are no get out of jail free cards for having good intentions.

I'm not saying you're less than honorable in your intentions and thinking, I'm just saying you could go to jail if it happened to you with thinking like that. Telling that line of logic with authority like you know that it would be an affirmative defense in court or to a cop, to someone who doesn't know any better, will not end well if they try to use your excuse as a defense when it all turns to crap.

Talking about immediately returning it to the manufacturer won't make any difference when ATF walks up to you on the firing line. After you're cuffed and read your rights is not the time to say you were going to send it back. Oh, you knew it was firing full auto then? That voluntary statement can be used against you, just the same as a confession.

Some ATF agents are really sharp guys when it comes to guns, but many of the don't know crap about guns, then just know about their little part of the paperwork. When the phone rings, they all go out and do what they're told. Whether they know a Daisy BB gun from an MG34 machinegun is irrelevant to them having their jobs. I met several agents when I was a deputy sheriff. I knew more about class 3 than some of the agents, and knew more than all the other deputies because I've owned them and they haven't. Cop school doesn't teach crap about gun laws, and anyone with an accounting degree and a successful record check can get a job interview with FBI or ATF. Sadly, all of them are NOT knowledgeable about guns. Play the game, take your chances. I don't like the odds. Your experience may vary.

This message board isn't a place where people who should be talking about ideal situations in an ideal world. People come here for real answers, not speeches about what should/might/ought to happen. They need to know what reality is, not what would be proper in an ideal world where everyone is honorable. Everybody isn't honorable, and people DO go to jail for stupid crap, whether the gun involved was an approved design or not. What is approved today can be illegal tomorrow. It has happened many times, even after ATF issues an approval letter. CYOA. Nobody else will.

Some people just WANT to flirt with the law, John. Oh well. At least we all try to stop them from being foolish on this board. Time to move on...

To John "People come here for real answers, not speeches about what should/might/ought to happen." What is that all about? The simple fact is the owner was not picked up at the range, the owner has not been turned in (yet) and he needs to take immediate action by contacting a lawyer and returning the gun to the factory. If that is a speech then so be it. I am not writing about an after the report incident. Once they know the gun is going full auto it is too late and the owner has a problem. He needs to fix the problem before it is known. Go ahead and brow beat that but that is my option on what the owner should do. Harry

I do know people that have had semi-autos go full-auto due to defective & worn parts that have been able to bring them to gunsmiths to be repaired with ATF knowledge and without trouble. One was even in presence of two ATF agents at the range. A pistol with too light of a trigger job doubled twice. They said "you'd better get that fixed now".

Your best bet if something like that happens is to immediately disassemble it and leave the range and take it forthwith to a gunsmith. If you are trying to do the right thing and the ATF doesn't catch up with you until it's fixed, they are very unlikely (around here anyway) to take further action.

NB, there is a lot more to the Olofson case ("ATF threw a guy in jail because his AR malfunctioned and went full auto at the range!") than usually reported on the forums. There are likely others, so YMMV.

Well I guess for my friends sake he is lucky to have sold his TNW mg34. And thank you all, for the heads up and clarifying any and all legal issue's/concerns. Lets just say I wont be venturing into that realm.

Sebastian 'cbass' Rupp

Well lets see. LEO's just went to a mans house and took him off in Handcuffs for a 15 hour tour of the local jail. Why because he stole about 5 cents worth of electric power by plugging in his electric car at a local school while his son was at practice.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12 ... -jail?lite

Why do I point this out. Because sometimes it's up to the Local Law Enforcement agent that is there. Some are nice and some just want to hang folks so they can make a name for themselves or whatever.

So now I ask you do you want to Hope that the agent is having a Good Day and will work with you as a nice person or are they having a bad day?? Remember up to 5 years and $25,000 is not a pretty thing to hope that someone is having a good/bad day. Full Auto is it worth playing with??

Myself I'm always going to try to make sure that I can live with the agent that is having a bad day. If it doubles then take it apart asap and get it fixed.
On the ar-15 that went FA and caused the problems well the owner was not even there he had loaned the ar-15 to the person that took it to the range. Loaning other folks weapons is not always the best thing to do. Came back hard on that person.

Remember when TNW sold the weapon it "worked" then while someone owned it, it went Full Auto. LEO's seem to only care about who is the current owner is not the company that made it. Parts wear and it's up to the current owner to keep things working correctly. The Semi Auto design that TNW made has the BATF ok.

Think!! As DA said some folks want to flirt with the law, to that I add or see if the agent is having a Good Day and will let it slide.

Later 42rocker