Trommelfuller on ebay Germany

[timarmitage]

Please could members have a look and tell me what you think as I am not sure about it and its expensive. Many thanks Tim

[JBaum]

A link or item number would be very helpful.

[timarmitage]

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Extra-RARE-Tromm ... 46306a39c8

Please can you see if that works I did a copy short cut from the ebay page. Thanks Tim

[timarmitage]

John what worries me is the "Europa" stamp three pictures in and the middle one. The machine comes from Russia and I don't think the Germans in 1936 used this term? Thus if that is wrong what about the rest of the machine? Thanks Tim

[timarmitage]

As far as I know the maker mark should be Gustav Appel, company logo below. Tim

[timarmitage]

I have looked through all my reference books and I cannot find the name Europa listed. This appears to be the company logo and the only one I have seen is Appel. It has 7005 Europa 1936 and what appears to be a Waffenamt mark.

[amafrank]

I've seen one of these machines in the US and its quite a piece. I don't know what the makers mark was on the one I saw as I wasn't really looking for that. On the other hand the term Europa has been around for a long time. It could easily be a small company who made prototypes of test pieces. I truly doubt the claim that there are only 2 of these known in the world but obviously from the numbers seen it would appear they are unusual. The thought that someone would make a repro is pretty unlikely as the cost in tooling would make it a losing proposition to sell it even at the price they're asking. A lot of unusual stuff has come from russia too so there is precedent. Look at all the original doppeltrommel topcovers for the MG34s which came from there some years back. We think of WWII as being a european thing but the russians did a lot more fighting and most of the german army headed east along with lots of wonderful toys they were trying out on the untermensch prior to producing and using them on us. I couldn't guarantee the thing was original but just because its not marked HASAG or something commonly known doesn't make it a fake......

Just my opinion

Frank

[timarmitage]

Many thanks I have the same opinion through my Facebook page with someone who is on holiday abroad. Thanks Tim

[Matt]

quick google search of europa metal stamping turned up a company that was around in the 20s and 30s doing metal stamping and according to their history they were destroyed during the war but then rebuilt and are still in business today. expensive for sure but im sure its original. looks tough to reproduce on a small scale. there is also some serious pitting on the parts and looks like sombody scrubbed it with steel wool or something similar.

[timarmitage]

Hi what I have decided to do is watch and see what happens with the bid. I think given the rarity it will go for an incredible amount. As its outside the EEC I would have to pay 20% import duty, so it makes it even more expensive. I think on reflection that it is genuine but is going to be very expensive. However it might be that who ever is selling it might have some more, as there were with the Trommelhalters a few years ago. This one on ebay might be a test to see what the market will pay and then some more might appear. So I am just going to wait and see.
Tim

[timarmitage]

Just gone to ebay and the auction has been ended by the vendor due to an error in the listing. I don't know a great deal about ebay but I suppose others do, what does that mean, and can you just stop an auction. Don't really understand how you can list something and then stop things.????? Anyone enlighten me about how ebay works. Many thanks Tim

[JBaum]

Yes, you can stop an auction. Ebay requires it to be only for a few reasons, but anyone can say it's for a particular reason, then sell the item privately to a bidder who made an offer to the buyer that was satisfactory.

I would guess someone offered what the seller thought was a high price, and the seller sold it, rather than take his chances at auction.

[timarmitage]

Many thanks I can now see what is going on. Thanks Tim

[anjongni]

What a beautiful, intricate machine. Certainly looks original...undoubtedly worth the money.
Wish you could have gotten it, Tim......Phil

[timarmitage]

Thanks Phil, however some more might turn up, one can hope and if they are brought into the EEC there is not that extra 20% on top.
Tim

[Matt]

i think once collectors in russia figure out what they're worth or see that one sell more will start to show up.

[timarmitage]

Hi Matt I have been thinking on similar lines so I have put out a feeler with a German supplier who gets the Trommelhalters to see if he can get any Trommelfullers. If I can find some, I will let other members know so that those interested can obtain as well.

Tim

[bergflak]

I truly doubt the claim that there are only 2 of these known in the world but obviously from the numbers seen it would appear they are unusual.
Frank

Seller contacted me some weeks ago, asking me how rare the machine was and if I was interested in buying it. I told him "Two of my friends have a machine like that, but I haven't got one" That probably translated to "Only two known in the world" when it hit Ebay (out of my league).
I wouldn't be surprised if this one stays in Russia, or ends up with a Russian. There are some serious collectors of this stuff over there as well.

[Matt]

that sounds like a great plan tim. if you're able to source 'em let us know. i've got a few mg15 drums i could load with it!

[timarmitage]

Will do, will post any information I get Tim