Optical Sight For MG08 - Maschinengewehr 08 + MG34 AA Sight

[Wolf88]

Hi folks, selling two items:

1. Optical Sight For German MG08 (Maschinengewehr 08) - $700
2. Anti Aircraft sight for MG34 - $135

Photos of the items - below.

[Blanksguy]

Wolf,
"PM" sent with questions, and possible sale.
Regards, RichardS in MI.
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[Bil]

Wolf88 is a real good guy to do business with. ---bil

[Wolf88]

Thanks, Bill.

Here, a few more photos for those of you who asked me about the lenses/optics.
I tried to make my photo camera "see" through the sight - a very tricky task plus I'm not the best photographer on the planet but I think you guys will get the idea.

I'm adding a photo of the turning knob - it is hollow and has some sort of an attachment plug in it.

[IMBLITZVT]

Do you know any more about the ZF12? Its set up like a mortar sight? Not a standard ZF12 optical rail setup.

[Wolf88]

Do you know any more about the ZF12? Its set up like a mortar sight? Not a standard ZF12 optical rail setup.

All I know is that it is made post World War One.
Most probably a Nazi make for use in World War Two.

It's a machine gun scope but I can't tell what kind of a gun or lafette it was used with. Maybe some special mod of MG08.
It sure is different from your common ZF12 and I could not find any info on this model with the dove tail attachment.
In other words - it's rare.


_

[IMBLITZVT]

The base looks like the sight was mod for use with a Mortar. There is really no reason for the MG sight to move right or left.

Are there any post war stamps on the base or scope?

How is the sight attached?

I don't know that I am sure its not a home made mod rather than military mod. The only sight I have seen like this is the dutch post WWI MG scope.

[Wolf88]

I believe the side turn adjustment is for compensation - for shooting at airplanes and other distant but fast moving targets.

I can guarantee you that this is not a mod.
At least not a "home made mod".
Where this sight comes from people are not allowed to own machine guns, not even as deactivated props. So there is no point in "home modding" a sight that you are not allowed to attach to anything.

Regarding the dove tail vs rails attachment: here is a post WW-1 MG08 that uses a dove tail.

[IMBLITZVT]

"I believe the side turn adjustment is for compensation - for shooting at airplanes and other distant but fast moving targets."

Hmm... don't think so. That knob is a very standard mortar sight unit. They had AA sights both in WWI and post war for these guns. These sights don't have the field of view for AA sights.

I can guarantee you that this is not a mod.
At least not a "home made mod".

Yeah it doesn't look it but for the life of me I can't see why this would have been done.

"Where this sight comes from people are not allowed to own machine guns, not even as deactivated props."

What country did it come from?

"Regarding the dove tail vs rails attachment: here is a post WW-1 MG08 that uses a dove tail."

There are no post WWI mods to the gun in that picture. I have several ZFs and know the mount arrangement.

There are no proof marks on the base?

[Wolf88]

The base looks like the sight was mod for use with a Mortar. There is really no reason for the MG sight to move right or left.

There could be many reasons for a machine gun scope to move left and right. Compensation is one of them.
The MG34 machine gun optical sight also does move left and right and also has an Azimuth knob. This does not make it a mortar sight.

I am coming to the conclusion that the scope that I am offering here may have been manufactured for use with some of the later models MG's, not for use with its original MG08.

Maybe an early experimental model for use with MG34 (before the actual MG34 scope came out) or something like that???

I am holding it in my hand now and I can totally guarantee you that the turning base is not a mod - not even an army mod. It is just a genuine part of the sight. In other words, the sight was manufactured like that.

I'm not an expert on optical sights but I can tell you that this is a very interesting sight and (apparently) - a rare one, since no body can tell us anything about this type.

Here, an MG34 optical scope that moves left & right (azimuth correction). Don't tell me that it's a mortar sight :



_

[IMBLITZVT]

Good point. I agree.

Now just one more thing to check. The MG34 rail has a wider dovetail than the MG08 dovetail. Is the dovetail on this sight the smaller MG08 style dovetail?

If it does have the smaller dovetail, its only going to fit the MG08 (the gun) or the MG08/15 lafette mount.

Are there any proofs on the base? Most post war items were marked with post war proofs. If we are talking new made or mods, both seem well marked.

[IMBLITZVT]

Some other things... its got a leather eye cup which is WWI. Post war they used rubber.

Also, the dovtails that attached to the rail were actually double sided dovetailing into the base of the scope as well. Can you see this through the paint? Is the sight dovetailed to the base?

The paint also looks fairly thick, does it have to coats?

Can you please take a close up picture of the writing on the side?

Thanks!

[Bil]

Same thing?? ---bil

[IMBLITZVT]

Same thing?? ---bil

No... very different. Check out other pictures of the ZF12s and you will see.

[Wolf88]

Good point. I agree.

Now just one more thing to check. The MG34 rail has a wider dovetail than the MG08 dovetail. Is the dovetail on this sight the smaller MG08 style dovetail?

If it does have the smaller dovetail, its only going to fit the MG08 (the gun) or the MG08/15 lafette mount

I don't have an MG34 sight available to compare the dovetail size but the dovetail on my sight measures:
Widest point of the dove tail - 20,5 millimeters
Narrowest point of dove tail - 15,5 millimeters

If it turns out that the dovetail on mine is smaller, this still does not mean that it wasn't used with an early/experimental MG34 lafette. Just a theory of mine.

S
Also, the dovtails that attached to the rail were actually double sided dovetailing into the base of the scope as well. Can you see this through the paint? Is the sight dovetailed to the base?

In my case the base of the scope is the rotating Azimuth plane. The dove tail is flat where it attaches to the rotating plane.

The paint also looks fairly thick, does it have to coats?

The paint is flaked at one spot and from what I see it looks like one single layer of paint. A thick one indeed.
See photos of the flaked area below.

Can you please take a close up picture of the writing on the side?

Just did that. See photos below.

[IMBLITZVT]

Are you sure about the paint? Check out the pictures below. Looks like painted area where the surface as chipped off. This would be a real sign of a repaint. Also it looks like in several areas, there is a darker green under the paint which would be correct. Finally the lettering is not painted well. I can take a picture of some of my ZFs if you would like. Paint on the letter, WWI and post WWI, is perfect.

Are there any proofs on the base? Most post war items were marked with post war proofs. If we are talking new made or mods, both seem well marked.

I will check the size of the dovetails when I get home. The smaller ones are MG08. The larger ones are MG34.

Can you tell me where this is from? What country?

Also how is the ZF attached to the base?

[Wolf88]

Are you sure about the paint?

With this sight I can't be sure about anything.

Check out the pictures below. Looks like painted area where the surface as chipped off. This would be a real sign of a repaint. Also it looks like in several areas, there is a darker green under the paint which would be correct. Finally the lettering is not painted well. I can take a picture of some of my ZFs if you would like. Paint on the letter, WWI and post WWI, is perfect.

I just scraped off most of the darker spots using my fingernail. It's just dirt that is stuck to the surface of the scope.

Are there any proofs on the base? Most post war items were marked with post war proofs. If we are talking new made or mods, both seem well marked.

This sight is not a mod.
Can't see any stamps. Maybe they are covered by the paint?

I will check the size of the dovetails when I get home.

Please, do so.

Can you tell me where this is from? What country?

It is from Bulgaria. Which means that the sight was made in Germany (as the manufacturer markings suggest)

Also how is the ZF attached to the base?

I have no idea - I have never disassembled this scope. What you see is what you get.

[Bil]

---bil

[IMBLITZVT]

I will check the size of the dovetails when I get home.

Please, do so.

Dovetail checks out with a standard ZF12 dovetail. It should fit the MG08 (Not the MG34 Lafette)

Are there any proofs on the base? Most post war items were marked with post war proofs. If we are talking new made or mods, both seem well marked.

This sight is not a mod.
Can't see any stamps. Maybe they are covered by the paint?

It is from Bulgaria. Which means that the sight was made in Germany (as the manufacturer markings suggest)

From Bulgaria! I think that explains the paint. Thats about the same green that the 1910 Maxims from Bulgaria came with! Seeing that the paint is in the chipped surface, I would think it is a Bulgarian Army repaint. See attached pictures for standard ZF12 WWI and Post War Markings. Yes for sure the upper unit was made in Germany, no doubt! I am thinking the Bulgarians reworked this scope to fit their post war needs. So its not some back yard mod. Looks like the Bulgarians made a new dovetail unit for it that was able to rotate. The Germans proofed almost everthing. These ZFs were proofed with a "k" stamped in the unit, either at the dial or dovetail. The lack of proofs on the base makes me think it may not be German but Bulgarian made dovetail unit. It would be interesting to see if we could find either a mortar sight with the same style knob as its fairly unlikely they made one special for this sight. That would confirm how made the dovetail unit. Anyway, thats my 2 cents on the scope.

Also how is the ZF attached to the base?

I have no idea - I have never disassembled this scope. What you see is what you get.

[/quote]

Please see other attached picture. See how its like a double sided dovetail unit? I think your sight has the same. It just like the milled the front of the ZF12 into a circle shape to match the dovetail unit.

I am a bit interested in the sight but we are to far away in price to make an offer.

Haha... Bil, zooming in does not make it any more the same... sorry very different sight.

[Bil]

Only knowing what I have learned here on these sights,I thought to isolate the site and compare.Now you are forcing me to learn more about them,drat you! My head is already full-where are my car keys?! ---bil