mg42 308 blow up pics

[panaceabeachbum]

might be a duplicate post gut here is a neat link I found on weaponeer
http://www.blackrivermilitaria.com/MG42 ... rning.html

[Abwehr]

I have seen these photos before. I bet the owner of this gun was a sick "puppy" after this happened. I have shot some Indian .308 in my 1919, and fortunant;y it has fired OK. I have had some problem with the Israeli .308 with minor splitting near the base. Here is a photo of the Izzy case fired in my 1919A4.

Edit - Hey guys, Look, I finally figured out how to post a Photo!!

[panaceabeachbum]

ouch, good thing the 1919 can take a blowup in stride.

[JBaum]

Once again I find it hard to believe how someone would own a $40,000 gun and blow it up because he had to save ten cents on ammo....

[gunslingerdoc]

Had my first split case like the one pictured above in my 1919 last week as well. The beast never skipped a beat - ZERO damage.

[boss429]

I shot 3000 rounds of the Indian stuff at the Florida shoot and had zero problems and I didn't have any of the bent /empty cases either. I got this from Century when it was advertised as "Select"(all they had at the time) and this stuff was in the 10 round bags in the cheapest ammo boxes I've ever seen I doubt they were even water tight.It seems as reports very wildly as to quality of the Indian stuff that there may have been "select lots" and "other lots" which Century or whomever was selling to various distributors so it may just be who did you buy from as to the quality.(?)

[panaceabeachbum]

Im with Jbaum here, I dont shoot crappy ammo in any of my guns, forget the gun life is to precious to save a buck or two on ammo. I have a friend whose left wrist was cut by some bad/eratic '06 ammo that hung then detonated in an old springfield. Nearly bled to death before we could get him the 10 miles to the paved road to meet the ambulance.

[jasond]

how does that happen in that mg42 pic. if that was my, i would start crying then i would hunt down the person or persons responsible

[panaceabeachbum]

The one good thing with the 42(not that a blowup is good) is that the engineers placed two holes in the barrel extension to redirect gas in a case like this.

[OldFalGuy]

I agree with Jbaum - never be the first guy to use a new ammo source, especially a foriegn one. I think I did see a pic of a blown top cover on a 1919 once but this is the owrst on a 42 in recent memory-repairable no doubt, especially in the capable hands of Bubba Naess. The Romanian is fine and the late Yugo also appears to work well. Just bought 10k of the late 80's Yugo on browning links to run in a 1917A1- my gosh does that stuff stink to high heaven- thought a sick animal did its business under the top cover Ran like a champ though with no FTF's over the entire 4000 rounds run of it-corrosive as heck but that is rather common.

Mark

[oldiron]

The mg 42 blew up because the headspace was too tight and the gun fired out of battery. Or the firing pin stuck forward It would be pretty impossible to tell. But however the firing pin can do this to any rifle; or MG-- or Semi-Mg. Plain and simple the bolt was not fully locked when it fired.


Anyway the 1919 split a case because possibly the headspace was too tight also-- One cartridge that was extra long in lenght-- That is all it takes. Most people do not realize that headspace is dependant on the size of the cartridges you are shooting plus how the gun is set up. Say your bolt/bareel headspace is close to minimum; and you get a cartridge that is right at maximum; you may get a problem when you fire it.. I suppose some one out there that understands what I am blabbing about here ; will understand but what you and all of us need to do is to figure out what a minimum and maximum gage for a cartridge is; ON A PARTICULAR SEMI; and get a gage like the ones Dillon makes for reloading. The mins and maxs say for a MG 42 semi for a specific cartridge may only work for a MG 42--

But it would not cost much and would however prevent these accidents. I would like to make gages like this so that I will bnot blow my stuff up with surplus ammo. A general headspace max gage needs to be made for each caliber say 8mm, 308, and 30-06

Then you would need a gage for the loaded cartridge. Before loading a belt you would need to drop each cartridge in the gage for a quick check -- If we or anyone did this you would prevent damage to your gun from all of these different surplus ammo problems.

Sure you may blast away for a year with one of these great firearms and never have a problem, but I for one do not want to take a chance on getting a face full of hot gas and brass particles.


In the early 1900's soldiers were actually fatally wounded when extractors blew out of early machine guns during testing and range firing.

[308nut]

You need to check each and every cartridge of Indian ammo. When you check them slide it down in the bolt slot(1919a4) to make sure it will pass thru it. I had a poof on mine. When I examined it ,it would not fit in the bolt. If it does not line up with the chamber and goes into battery the end of the case will buckle and go poof. I have found that at least 5% of these cases won't slide down thru the bolt. After pulling the bullets and measureing the powder it ranges from 38 to 45 grains. Another 5% of the casesare smashed or crumpled. A close check is what you have to do to be safe.

[oldiron]

So if you were to get a set of cartridge case gages made to shoot this ammo; for say $35.00 or so -- Would it be worth it to you?? Basically the gage would work like this drop a loaded cartridge in -- if it fits; It would be OK; the the other side is made so you drop a loaded road in it; if it goes all the way down; it would work.

We should all realize that the Indian Government got rid of this ammo because they got something better and sold off this crap on the open market.


Years ago I bought some of this stuff and basically the berdan primed stuff was great and the boxer primed (Try a different word.) was just plain (Try a different word.); dirty smoky when fired; and that was with a ball powder . The berdan stuff was an IMR powder and both had different extractor grooves-- So I hope you guys that shoot this stuff take a good look at it; inspect it; and then shoot it with real caution


I know that I do not like to squint and grimace when I squeeze the trigger !!!

[JBaum]

panaceabeachbum - I was rereading the thread... The extra holes were added to the barrel extension to lighten the weight. The Germans had the guns blow up too, and used high speed photography to determine the cause. They used the bolt catch to solve the problem. A clean chamber and ammunition inspections were mandatory... they still are.

[Abwehr]

John B. is 100% correct about cleaning the gun, belts, ammo, etc. The German machinegunners were instructed to ALWAYS clean the weapon, belts, etc. when not engaged in fighting. One of John's translations has the 10 point code for the gunner and I think the last one is KEEP THE GUN CLEAN. The quick barrel change also helped with keeping the gun operating at peak efficiency by getting the dirty barrel out and putting a clean one in.

I was always tought to do this regardless of the gun. In Vietnam, you had to do the same thing with the M16 to keep it working too!

[Colorado1919]

Back in the early 1980s I had a friend blow a barrel latch on his FA(transferable) 42 by using cheap surplus ammo. He had bought the surplus because he didn,t like using reloaded ammo. Said he could feel the difference in the reloaded charge weight of individual cartidges. Some had more or less powder then others. That was the first time I ever heard, " I would never use 2 cent ammo in $4200 gun! (Oh how I wish it was 1980 again!)

[OldFalGuy]

I guess (sarcasm coming) times are a LOT better now- the gun cost 10 times as much bush the best ammo is only a 5 times as much (dime instead of 2 cents) Perhaps its a blessing that I do not get the chance to shoot as much as I wish I could but this results in the ammo cost being basically irrelevent. I wish I go shoot 3-4K rounds 10 times a year but only going out 2-3 times I am in a position to heck buy it buy Federal Match in 20rd box and not spend anymore!!! Wouldn't like it out of principle of course but I will not put junk in any of my NFA's. One boo boo boom and the day is shot or frustrating at a minimum to expensive parts broken up to an injury to self or others- Noe of which is worth it ever.

Mark

[KMFDM]

Hopefully this does not come off as a flame, if it does I don't intend it to be one.

To me the blowup looks like an excessive headspace issue or perhaps a bore obstruction. I have never heard of an MG42 blowing up because of too tight a headspace. I guess it is possible though but it seems to me to be highly unlikely. Because it seems to me the firing pin on a PROPERLY functioning MG42 will not be timed/allowed to go forward until the rollers have reached a safe locking point and allowed the angled piece/firing pin holder to move forward and strike primer until proper lockup is achieved. Also if that were the case then more MG42/3 would be blowing up more frequently it would seem. The German Waffenmeister I used to work with in his case (Werkezeugkasten) did not have a min headspace plug gage all he had was a max one and with every German Waffenmeister I have worked with only had a max gage for the MG3. I've seen alot of guns over the years that blew up because of excessive headspace and thats normally what they look like. It wouldn't surprise me if he found unburnt powder inside of his reciever also. A bore obstruction can do similar depending on where it happens in the barrel (perhaps a bullet lodged there by a squib round?). Lastly the ammo could be at fault but until I analyzed the gun fully I would not say it was ammo.

[OldFalGuy]

Where would find a maximum headspace guage as you describe? Thruth be told I have never thought of using a guage with the 42, I keep it clean, use good ammo, lube and let it run. If there is ever a problem which is rare i may change bolts or barrels once and run it some more.

Mark

[KMFDM]

Headspace gages normally come in 3 sizes: GO (minimum), NO-GO (where you should stop) and FIELD (the maximum allowable tolerance).

Most miltary armorers are usually given one gage for checking such things and that is what is normally a "Field" (reject) gage. Now mind you if you are working with a 7.62 chamber and a a set of .308 gages you will be disappointed because the cartridges have a different headspace datum line and dimensions and .308 no-go gages will show failure in a minimum 7.62 chamber sometimes.

Who sells the gages for this? Good question, I don't know for sure but I got a 7.62 gage from a German Waffenmeister awhile back. As for 8mm Clymer/Forster/Manson sell all the gages. I believe they are the correct dimensions.

As for having to do the headspace measurement myself. I would not go past the No-Go because how much your weapon is worth. I would recommend if your firing schedule is more than about 2000 rounds a year on a used barrel that you take it to a competant gunsmith or if you know it well enough and headspace it yourself and check everything out frequently. Any military does not issue their weapons with out a service schedule and for good reason. In the US Army 1 time a year is mandatory even for guns that don't get used and when one comes if for any repair it is supposed to be checked from front to back and gaged also regardless of when the last time it was checked.