Way over priced MG-08 locks
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cobra
Way over priced MG-08 locks
A few days ago I ask a fellow member if he would sell a couple of MG-08 locks for two guns that we had just purchased, which were in fine condition but without locks. We never will shoot these guns but wanted to complete them. He had none to sell but. said that a friend had some at $400 each. OUCH! Since we had some Russian locks and had just purchased a German lock on at a local gun show for a lot lower price I gave the three locks to our machine shop forman and told him to see if he could make the Russian ones work. Three hours later he came in my office ,put the three locks on my desk and said, After a little work the Russian ones will work just fine. They DID. So, for $50 for the two Russian locks we have saved $750 dollars. Where do these high prices come from for items that were made by the hundreds of thousands. They sure aren,t that rare. or hard to duplicate. COBRA 6
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Cobra,
Most of the prices you get things at, are well below anything I see. I don't think you have bought one thing yet that you have told us prices on that I thought was anything less than a steal! I pretty much buy any German lock I see under $250 and if its nice under $300. $400 seems to be the selling point of German locks. They will not fly off the shelf but they will sell in when people need them.
As far as having your Russian lock converted, well thats great that you have a machine shop that you can use and get it done for $50. However most of us could not begin to come up with that. Even if we could it would wind up costing us more than the $400 in work. Also these prices are based on parts for FA working guns. They are shooting several hundred bucks of ammo at a time so $400 on a lock that will work 100% right the first time is well worth it. Also if you don't mind me asking, what all did he do to get it to "work"? Was it converted to 8mm? If so he rewelded the slot and machined it for a rimless round? How about the connection to the lock arm? Did he weld and thread the back? Pictures would clear it up.
Finally the other reason for the high price is that most of the demils done in the US included the removal of the lock from the gun. So a LOT of people are missing locks. That along with lots of springs breaking make it an item that you need several of and always missing.
Put it this way, if I need a lock (which after that last thread you can see I don't) I would not have a problem buying one for $400 assuming its in good working order.
Most of the prices you get things at, are well below anything I see. I don't think you have bought one thing yet that you have told us prices on that I thought was anything less than a steal! I pretty much buy any German lock I see under $250 and if its nice under $300. $400 seems to be the selling point of German locks. They will not fly off the shelf but they will sell in when people need them.
As far as having your Russian lock converted, well thats great that you have a machine shop that you can use and get it done for $50. However most of us could not begin to come up with that. Even if we could it would wind up costing us more than the $400 in work. Also these prices are based on parts for FA working guns. They are shooting several hundred bucks of ammo at a time so $400 on a lock that will work 100% right the first time is well worth it. Also if you don't mind me asking, what all did he do to get it to "work"? Was it converted to 8mm? If so he rewelded the slot and machined it for a rimless round? How about the connection to the lock arm? Did he weld and thread the back? Pictures would clear it up.
Finally the other reason for the high price is that most of the demils done in the US included the removal of the lock from the gun. So a LOT of people are missing locks. That along with lots of springs breaking make it an item that you need several of and always missing.
Put it this way, if I need a lock (which after that last thread you can see I don't) I would not have a problem buying one for $400 assuming its in good working order.
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Cobra, where are you seeing a lot of locks out there? Most US German dewats were missing the locks. The locks are one of the primary things a lot of maxim owners who shoot any at all get as many of as possible. For that matter, the headspace/timing is a switch out the lock and rails until you get it right kind of deal. lots of locks helps to get everything working.
Another item I've run into is that many of the German locks out there have somewhat tired springs. The Russian ones are much much better. Part of that is that many of them are coming from the Ukraine where they were completely refurbished in the 80s prior to being put away, so they are not really 90+ years old.
The German locks are much harder to find than they were even 10 years ago, you're right, they were made in the 100's of thousands, but they don't seem to exist in that kind of quantity now. I've seen 08 locks sell immediately for more than what you were quoted.
I'm curious what the machine shop did to the russian locks you're talking about. They were somewhat different locks, as you know the 1910 system is somewhat different than the 08 system. What did the machine shop make? A new lock "foot" to attach to the rails, and somehow press the old lock arms apart and install it? I've tried getting machine shops to do that, and they wouldn't touch it, as the old pins/arms were so solid, they weren't sure they could get them apart without (or with) damage. An adaptor piece to change the connector on the 1910 lock from Female to Male would be a logical possibilty, is that it??? I've never seen one of those made by anyone, anywhere, if the machine shop made that, I'd love to see that. I've talked about that with some, but the cost was going to be more than the lock, and, of course, who knows if that would work? Id be very interested in seeing exactly what it was that the machine shop did.
Glen
Another item I've run into is that many of the German locks out there have somewhat tired springs. The Russian ones are much much better. Part of that is that many of them are coming from the Ukraine where they were completely refurbished in the 80s prior to being put away, so they are not really 90+ years old.
The German locks are much harder to find than they were even 10 years ago, you're right, they were made in the 100's of thousands, but they don't seem to exist in that kind of quantity now. I've seen 08 locks sell immediately for more than what you were quoted.
I'm curious what the machine shop did to the russian locks you're talking about. They were somewhat different locks, as you know the 1910 system is somewhat different than the 08 system. What did the machine shop make? A new lock "foot" to attach to the rails, and somehow press the old lock arms apart and install it? I've tried getting machine shops to do that, and they wouldn't touch it, as the old pins/arms were so solid, they weren't sure they could get them apart without (or with) damage. An adaptor piece to change the connector on the 1910 lock from Female to Male would be a logical possibilty, is that it??? I've never seen one of those made by anyone, anywhere, if the machine shop made that, I'd love to see that. I've talked about that with some, but the cost was going to be more than the lock, and, of course, who knows if that would work? Id be very interested in seeing exactly what it was that the machine shop did.
Glen
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cobra
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
I had a short visit with our shop foreman this morning. The parts we talked about are a hundred years old,most, if not all were hand fitted to each gun because they were almost hand made on antique machines.That being the case we took the locks apart by freezing them which makes them come apart very easy. We ran them through a scanner and then put each part in the comp. We then duplicated each Russian part to match the German part by milling them to fit. We had to do a small ammount of welding with a tig welder and after that they were scanned and if the parts matched we put them back together. They worked. Almost 99.5 % of mchine shops do not have the automated equipment that we have. Thats why you can,t get anything done. They aren,t trained to do the work and they don.t have the money to buy such modern equipment. That said,you are working with a bunch of junk that is very easy to make but ,there is no one that will duplicate hundred year old parts. The market is not there. It can be done troops but you have to have money. Cobra 6
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Cobra,
Let me ask you... say your machine shop guy had to bill someone for that as if it was some guy off the street. First, would he take the job? Second would it cost less than $400 to get that work done? It sounds like a good bit of work. Also what did you do about the connection to the recoil plates?
The great part about a Machine shop is that so long as you have the specs, you can make almost anything. Hell if you really wanted they could make you a complete MG08 from scratch! However most of us are not that lucky. I bought a nice Lincoln 185 Tig but have yet to get a Milling machine. So if I wanted to get that done, as your foreman how much he would charge me if I mailed him one of my Russian locks? Bottom line is that you have access to something most of us would kill for!
Let me ask you... say your machine shop guy had to bill someone for that as if it was some guy off the street. First, would he take the job? Second would it cost less than $400 to get that work done? It sounds like a good bit of work. Also what did you do about the connection to the recoil plates?
The great part about a Machine shop is that so long as you have the specs, you can make almost anything. Hell if you really wanted they could make you a complete MG08 from scratch! However most of us are not that lucky. I bought a nice Lincoln 185 Tig but have yet to get a Milling machine. So if I wanted to get that done, as your foreman how much he would charge me if I mailed him one of my Russian locks? Bottom line is that you have access to something most of us would kill for!
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cobra
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Most of my work tends to be aircraft. I work world wide in recoverning military aircraft old and modern. I deal in a lot in Russian,French,British, and American aircraft that are out dated for present day use. I also pick up certain war relics that are important to military museums around the world. Some times we pick up arms that need certain parts and send a team around to different shows etc to recover these items. If in a time span we are unable to find what we need then we make them as with the locks for the MG-08. We don,t collect anything, as over the years we have seen that nothing is so rare that we pay a price that has gone up way above what the piece is worth. That is what has happened to small collectors. They don,t collect items to build up a nice collection. They buy at no matter the cost because they haven,t seen one offered in their area and to them it becomes RARE. I could produce the locks for the MG-08 but there is no market. Only for small time collectors. When the company in Germany started making the MP-44,FG-42 etc they did not do any research as to what the market would be for those items. They are finding out that there is NO sizeable need for a reproduction firearm and the price is now reflecting their lack of market need. On todays market you would have to sell 25000 items to break even and there is not that many collectors looking for a repro toy. COBRA 6
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Cobra,
Its all supply and demand. Here in the US, there are LOTS of transferable MG08s and MG08/15s compared with other Transferable guns in private hands. Lots of these are missing or have broken locks. Plus its an item that breaks a lot so most shooters feel the need to have more than one or two or three... Lets face it, if you have a $10k gun that you can't shoot, a $400 lock is a small price to pay! So the market for these locks is pretty high compared to most other early FA guns. There are probably only 20 or so original Russian Maxims in private hands and a fair amount of parts kits that will mainly be left as kits or turned into semis. Semis people really only need one or two locks as the cost of machining them into the semi design is high and they break a lot less with the reduced stresses of semi fire. So there is not that high of a demand for the Russian locks.
Now lets talk Supply. For the most part its hard at any one point to find a German lock. You must know someone or get lucky and run across one for sale. The prices in Europe are just as high and with the exchange rate and shipping, put them out of reach. Like you say in your last post, no one would make them as they are very complex and you could not begin to recover your money. Hell they would be a $1k part if you made them today! Russian locks can be found at a few different places from $50 to $150... no problem.
So its almost completely a sellers market for the German locks. At $400 for a nice good condition working lock, you are at the going rate for a MG08 or MG08/15 lock.
I understand what you are saying by shifts in the market. Like the election of Obama drove Black rifle and ammo prices sky high. The current prices on ammo are still to high and will come back down. Nothing like this is really going on with German Maxim items. In several more years I think you will find that they come off the market all together and will be "for Trade" only! Its already getting to that point on a lot of these items. Its easier to find the money than find the part.
Your ablility to copy or make rare items puts you in a position most of us would dream of. If I am short a MG08 lock, the gun sits until I can find one. I could not afford to have a new one made and if I can not find one for sale I am out of luck.
I think the prices on German Maxim items are high because of high demand because of the high quanity of FA German Maxims in the US. I think these prices are real and unlikely to go down.
As far as prices you find things at, on almost every one I have heard you say, I would be more than happy to pay a 10% finders fee and take them off your hands. You have gotten some really good prices over the years. Most of us have not been that luck or just not looking the same places you are... or something.
Its all supply and demand. Here in the US, there are LOTS of transferable MG08s and MG08/15s compared with other Transferable guns in private hands. Lots of these are missing or have broken locks. Plus its an item that breaks a lot so most shooters feel the need to have more than one or two or three... Lets face it, if you have a $10k gun that you can't shoot, a $400 lock is a small price to pay! So the market for these locks is pretty high compared to most other early FA guns. There are probably only 20 or so original Russian Maxims in private hands and a fair amount of parts kits that will mainly be left as kits or turned into semis. Semis people really only need one or two locks as the cost of machining them into the semi design is high and they break a lot less with the reduced stresses of semi fire. So there is not that high of a demand for the Russian locks.
Now lets talk Supply. For the most part its hard at any one point to find a German lock. You must know someone or get lucky and run across one for sale. The prices in Europe are just as high and with the exchange rate and shipping, put them out of reach. Like you say in your last post, no one would make them as they are very complex and you could not begin to recover your money. Hell they would be a $1k part if you made them today! Russian locks can be found at a few different places from $50 to $150... no problem.
So its almost completely a sellers market for the German locks. At $400 for a nice good condition working lock, you are at the going rate for a MG08 or MG08/15 lock.
I understand what you are saying by shifts in the market. Like the election of Obama drove Black rifle and ammo prices sky high. The current prices on ammo are still to high and will come back down. Nothing like this is really going on with German Maxim items. In several more years I think you will find that they come off the market all together and will be "for Trade" only! Its already getting to that point on a lot of these items. Its easier to find the money than find the part.
Your ablility to copy or make rare items puts you in a position most of us would dream of. If I am short a MG08 lock, the gun sits until I can find one. I could not afford to have a new one made and if I can not find one for sale I am out of luck.
I think the prices on German Maxim items are high because of high demand because of the high quanity of FA German Maxims in the US. I think these prices are real and unlikely to go down.
As far as prices you find things at, on almost every one I have heard you say, I would be more than happy to pay a 10% finders fee and take them off your hands. You have gotten some really good prices over the years. Most of us have not been that luck or just not looking the same places you are... or something.
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Forgive me for not being bright enough to follow the logic here but if a $50 russian lock can be transformed into something that will fit and function in an mg08 to original specs and in the original caliber, and it cost you practically nothing to make, then why would this not be a worthwhile endeavor? A working lock would easily fetch $200 if it would drop in an 08, even if it was a bastardized russian lock.
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Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Hello cobra,
I think that lock's price move with the market, it's only a question of ask an offer! If you can't buy one because it's to expensive, try to find one less expensive...it's very easy, just a question of time! For me, the price of a MG lock is about 300 euros, so a little more than 400 dollars!
After, if you can put a russian lock for nothing, let's do it; you can also change the grip, buy a copy booster and a sledmount in plastic.....but for me it's not collecting.
Best regards
david
I think that lock's price move with the market, it's only a question of ask an offer! If you can't buy one because it's to expensive, try to find one less expensive...it's very easy, just a question of time! For me, the price of a MG lock is about 300 euros, so a little more than 400 dollars!
After, if you can put a russian lock for nothing, let's do it; you can also change the grip, buy a copy booster and a sledmount in plastic.....but for me it's not collecting.
Best regards
david
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Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Speaking only for myself, functional collectable weapons verse “collecting” sometime do not go together. Since those of us that can only have semi-autos have to commit crimes against nature by destroying our weapons and then rebuilding them in a semi-automatic format, the question is how much is original???
That being said, I would be quite keen on a way to use a Russian 1910 lock in a Lonnie Sherman semi-maxim build, that is for an Mg08, not a semi-1910. Anybody have an idea how much of the full-auto lock gets butchered for the semi conversion? I have not seen any plans yet, and I really do not want my 08 lock screwed-up when the time comes for the conversion.
That being said, I would be quite keen on a way to use a Russian 1910 lock in a Lonnie Sherman semi-maxim build, that is for an Mg08, not a semi-1910. Anybody have an idea how much of the full-auto lock gets butchered for the semi conversion? I have not seen any plans yet, and I really do not want my 08 lock screwed-up when the time comes for the conversion.
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Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Guys,
Jmann... I agree... but what I was saying is it cost him $50 but that would not be the cost to us... By the time we got a price on it, it would be more than the cost of the MG08 lock! CHEAP access to a machine shop solves many things.
David, I understand. You are a collector of history as much as guns. Same with you mark. On this side of the pond, we have two collectors... shooters and historical collectors like you guys. I myself am in between but closer to a shooter. So for a lot of us, we just want it to go BANG. But for you, since you can't do that anyway, the history is everything.
Shawn, Well there is an easy why for you to do this, no machine shop needed! You will need:
1. MG08 Extractor, complete (the front part). I have a source for these, call me if you want one. Price $100
2. Russian Lock (Roughly $50)
3. Russian or Vickers Crank/lock connection arm. (This will be the hard piece to find, Maybe from IMA?)
Now check out this page:
http://www.mg0815.com/headspaceablelock.html
This is the best way I know of to do it. Cheap, headspacable and not much work. I think Bob Naess came up with the idea. He will do the conversion for you but its not cheap. Its basically the same way you do a 7.62 by 54r conversion but don't need a feedblock or recoil plates.
I think this should work with Lonnies design. Probably Dennis's too.
Jmann... I agree... but what I was saying is it cost him $50 but that would not be the cost to us... By the time we got a price on it, it would be more than the cost of the MG08 lock! CHEAP access to a machine shop solves many things.
David, I understand. You are a collector of history as much as guns. Same with you mark. On this side of the pond, we have two collectors... shooters and historical collectors like you guys. I myself am in between but closer to a shooter. So for a lot of us, we just want it to go BANG. But for you, since you can't do that anyway, the history is everything.
Shawn, Well there is an easy why for you to do this, no machine shop needed! You will need:
1. MG08 Extractor, complete (the front part). I have a source for these, call me if you want one. Price $100
2. Russian Lock (Roughly $50)
3. Russian or Vickers Crank/lock connection arm. (This will be the hard piece to find, Maybe from IMA?)
Now check out this page:
http://www.mg0815.com/headspaceablelock.html
This is the best way I know of to do it. Cheap, headspacable and not much work. I think Bob Naess came up with the idea. He will do the conversion for you but its not cheap. Its basically the same way you do a 7.62 by 54r conversion but don't need a feedblock or recoil plates.
I think this should work with Lonnies design. Probably Dennis's too.
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cobra
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Well, it looks like I have got you to start thinking . First of all, if you would stop thinking of paying $400 for the locks, the person who is setting on them would think HAY, No body wants the damn things so maybe I should go down on the price and after wasting his money setting at a few shows with nothing going out but table rent ,food ,gas and lodging he will figure whats wrong. MY JUNK IS PRICED TO HIGH. After all how many guys go out and waste good money shooting these things anyway? NOT THAT MANY. And how many locks are broken when these few shoot? You have seen a web page where the RUSSIAN locks have been changed so, Buy one and try to improve your minds and do something rather than crying about the sky is falling,There are no more locks. The Devil,s Paintbrush a great book on the Maxim states that 16000 Maxims were brought to this country after WW-1 thousands were given to VFW and AFW posts,court houses and many other places for display. Yes, many were destroyed but believe me there are many still setting in basements and attics in those places. There were also many Maxims imported by private firms and sold very cheap to many old guys who are passing away every day and their wives ARE wanting to get rid of them. Just a few months ago six or seven machine guns were found in a river in Alabama. That old guy didn,t dump those items, I would bet his wife did. Quit making things go up in price when you can open your eyes. You are not going to find anything cheap at these large gun shows. Those people are trying to make as much money as they can on your thinking these things are rare and there AIN,T NO MORE so, I had better get one. Woe is Me. THINK GENTLEMEN THINK COBRA 5&7
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
With all due respect, I feel your opinions about price are a bit off base. There are not many "dealers" selling 08 locks anymore. They are scarce. Russian locks are not because ima still has them and there are not that many russian guns in the US full auto pool. Vickers locks were relatively cheap but they keep going up as well as supply declines. No supply of anything that has not been made for 70 years infinite and when those stockpiles dwindle the price goes up. Just because you dont believe something is worth a certain dollar value most definitely does not make it gospel. There are a lot of shooter/collectors out there that have these items for spares or simply because they wish to collect one from every maker, year, ect. Whose to say they are wrong? I have 8 mg08 locks. Are any for sale NO. I prefer to keep them as spares and hold on to them. Is the price going to continue to go up? I dont know and dont care. It wouldnt bother me if it came down, on locks or guns. That just means more people would have the chance to experience it.
Bottom line is locks are expensive. I would be willing to bet if the cost of modifying those 1910 locks was really added up, by that I mean machinist labor, machine cost, ect... the true cost would come out far more than $50, thus shrinking the savings and the gap between a bastardized piece and an original piece considerably.
With enough time, money and willingness you can put a rolls merlin in a ford pinto. Is it correct? NO Will it work? I dont know, possibly. Will it save any money in the long run? Well, hindsight has to answer that.
I once overheard a couple of folks arguing at a shoot that one gentlemans m2hb was just as nice as that one on the table. The guns being compared were a transferable ac spark plug m2hb and a dummy m2hb mounted on a halftrack with thick aluminum sideplates, no internals and a shot out barrel with a bolt welded in it. You know the guy was right, standing on the ground the gun on the top of that halftrack was just as nice as that $25000 gun.
Bottom line is locks are expensive. I would be willing to bet if the cost of modifying those 1910 locks was really added up, by that I mean machinist labor, machine cost, ect... the true cost would come out far more than $50, thus shrinking the savings and the gap between a bastardized piece and an original piece considerably.
With enough time, money and willingness you can put a rolls merlin in a ford pinto. Is it correct? NO Will it work? I dont know, possibly. Will it save any money in the long run? Well, hindsight has to answer that.
I once overheard a couple of folks arguing at a shoot that one gentlemans m2hb was just as nice as that one on the table. The guns being compared were a transferable ac spark plug m2hb and a dummy m2hb mounted on a halftrack with thick aluminum sideplates, no internals and a shot out barrel with a bolt welded in it. You know the guy was right, standing on the ground the gun on the top of that halftrack was just as nice as that $25000 gun.
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Cobra,
I hate to tell you think but I have one of these hybrid locks and have had it for a long time. You were looking for a MG08 lock so I did not bother with this or the Russian locks. Since you needed it for a museaum I did not think to tell you about the hybrid. I knew you knew about the Russian locks.
"HAY, No body wants the damn things so maybe I should go down on the price..."
Thats a good theory but let me know when those 1000s and 1000s of lugers get to $500
"After all how many guys go out and waste good money shooting these things anyway? NOT THAT MANY."
Well I hope to be one of those not that many soon.
"Buy one and try to improve your minds and do something rather than crying about the sky is falling,There are no more locks."
I don't mean to be rude but it was you that started this thread and was crying about not being able to find a lock cheap. I have been buying them for a few years now and never had to pay top money for any of mine. Actually I am very happy with my collection of locks and the price I paid.
"that 16000 Maxims were brought to this country after WW-1 thousands were given to VFW and AFW posts,court houses and many other places for display."
Yes and if you read Dolf tell you before they were sent off, they broke the lower feedarm and removed the locks!!! Most of these locks were scrapped or something. Many locks were imported post WWII to help the demand!
Cobra, I don't know what to tell you. Yes you can wait and search and search and maybe come across something every once and a while. No doubt. However if you want to collect something and in my case have something to shoot, you must pay close to market rate for some of the items. You don't see me dropping big money on many items and I don't hear anyone on else complaining about the prices of things. Market rate is market rate. Hell I could tell you why should you spend good money on aircraft... hell somewhere there is one of them shot down in a jungle you could find for free! I am 27 and missed out on the time of cheap MGs. I "could" wait until everyone dies and they are cheap again... but that may never happen. So I look for good deals by todays market rate and buy them. Today the market rate on locks is about $400 so I tend to buy under $300. Yeah I can make a hybrid for about $200 but I want an original gun if I can help it. The point of the hybrid is not to be cheap, its to allow you to headspace the gun and thats it. Thats why it was made and when it first came out cost 2 time the cost of a normal lock.
I hate to tell you think but I have one of these hybrid locks and have had it for a long time. You were looking for a MG08 lock so I did not bother with this or the Russian locks. Since you needed it for a museaum I did not think to tell you about the hybrid. I knew you knew about the Russian locks.
"HAY, No body wants the damn things so maybe I should go down on the price..."
Thats a good theory but let me know when those 1000s and 1000s of lugers get to $500
"After all how many guys go out and waste good money shooting these things anyway? NOT THAT MANY."
Well I hope to be one of those not that many soon.
"Buy one and try to improve your minds and do something rather than crying about the sky is falling,There are no more locks."
I don't mean to be rude but it was you that started this thread and was crying about not being able to find a lock cheap. I have been buying them for a few years now and never had to pay top money for any of mine. Actually I am very happy with my collection of locks and the price I paid.
"that 16000 Maxims were brought to this country after WW-1 thousands were given to VFW and AFW posts,court houses and many other places for display."
Yes and if you read Dolf tell you before they were sent off, they broke the lower feedarm and removed the locks!!! Most of these locks were scrapped or something. Many locks were imported post WWII to help the demand!
Cobra, I don't know what to tell you. Yes you can wait and search and search and maybe come across something every once and a while. No doubt. However if you want to collect something and in my case have something to shoot, you must pay close to market rate for some of the items. You don't see me dropping big money on many items and I don't hear anyone on else complaining about the prices of things. Market rate is market rate. Hell I could tell you why should you spend good money on aircraft... hell somewhere there is one of them shot down in a jungle you could find for free! I am 27 and missed out on the time of cheap MGs. I "could" wait until everyone dies and they are cheap again... but that may never happen. So I look for good deals by todays market rate and buy them. Today the market rate on locks is about $400 so I tend to buy under $300. Yeah I can make a hybrid for about $200 but I want an original gun if I can help it. The point of the hybrid is not to be cheap, its to allow you to headspace the gun and thats it. Thats why it was made and when it first came out cost 2 time the cost of a normal lock.
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Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Cobra,
I think the Internet has changed the markets for this stuff a lot. I remember paging through the “Trade A Plane” in the early 1990s when you could buy “basket case” J3s and L4s for $3K-$6K, and network to find nice flyable Cubs for $10K, and then all of a sudden, especially with the Internet e.g., Ebay; the prices went to the stratosphere.
Some gun parts may fluctuate, I mean Centerfire beat the pants off everyone with M53 parts kits this summer; picture being the guy that paid $500-$600 for one the week before from sarco or gunbroker
?
However the novel items like Maxim stuff, and especially ALL THINGS German just do not come down. Granted I was young, but I remember when Allgemeine SS visor hats would sell for $600-$900 at gunshows, now I see them online selling for near $10K. Sure it is probably the high end of the market, but they are selling.
You want to know what is overpriced a cottonpicking G43 triggerguard, now for $250-$325 those b*stards are over-priced
I think the Internet has changed the markets for this stuff a lot. I remember paging through the “Trade A Plane” in the early 1990s when you could buy “basket case” J3s and L4s for $3K-$6K, and network to find nice flyable Cubs for $10K, and then all of a sudden, especially with the Internet e.g., Ebay; the prices went to the stratosphere.
Some gun parts may fluctuate, I mean Centerfire beat the pants off everyone with M53 parts kits this summer; picture being the guy that paid $500-$600 for one the week before from sarco or gunbroker
? However the novel items like Maxim stuff, and especially ALL THINGS German just do not come down. Granted I was young, but I remember when Allgemeine SS visor hats would sell for $600-$900 at gunshows, now I see them online selling for near $10K. Sure it is probably the high end of the market, but they are selling.
You want to know what is overpriced a cottonpicking G43 triggerguard, now for $250-$325 those b*stards are over-priced
“… corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, … until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”
- Abraham Lincoln (Republican), Nov. 21, 1864
- Abraham Lincoln (Republican), Nov. 21, 1864
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Interesting. I regularly shoot mine, and have been collecting and shooting Maxims for about 17 years now. I think more people are shooting these guns right now than at any time in the last 40 years, and probably since WWI.cobra wrote:After all how many guys go out and waste good money shooting these things anyway? NOT THAT MANY.
I know you're not in the shooting or collecting market, but since 1986, the price of everything has gone up so much that many, probably most of the registered old DEWAT guns out there have been re-activated, and about all of them were missing locks, and needed them. There's also been a fair number of sideplate guns made up, by a number of different makers, which also took up some of the available parts.
In short, a lot of the registered guns that were collecting dust 20 years ago, like all of mine, have been dusted off, and many are now being used. There has been a tremendous increase in interest in shooting all types of machine guns in the last 20 years, and the number of shoots has increased dramatically. At the same time, the amount of information available about these old guns has also increased dramatically.
Back in 1986, in the pre-internet days, the only information out there on the German maxims were old German manuals, some short info sheets, the J.Curtis Earl catalog, and other collectors. I was into this stuff back then. Accessories were really scarce: for belts, you were basically stuck with original WWI belts, which even in 1986 were pretty ratted out or worn out. Most of the owners I talked to back then only had one or two, and some of those were falling apart. Parts were really hard to come by. Bolts were hard to find, I remember one man I knew had perhaps 6, and he was the guy everyone was sending people to. Most of the collectors I knew then had only the ones in their guns. Dolf had a bunch he'd found somewhere, if you knew who Dolf was. Great War Militaria, in PA, had the most stuff, and they were a fantastic source for stuff out of Europe.
Spandau Armory actually made some belts, as did Stemple, as the old ones were just shot. Even if you had a Maxim, feeding it was difficult.
The internet, and Turkey and Austrailia disposing of their war reserve stocks, changed all of that, as for some years after IMA brought all that in, excellent condition unused vickers belts showed up, and lots and lots of Maxim parts, more spare parts than were ever probably brought in before. The big change other than parts, was information; I think there's more information out now in English about shooting the Maxim than at any time since WWI. Dolf and John Baum have provided literally mountains of information about how these things work, that simply was not readily available in say 1986.
In short, I think you're off target there, there's more of these old guns shooting now than 20 or 40 years ago. Back then, most of these guns were dormant. The fact that they are now being used is putting quite a bit of pressure on the parts supply. In almost every case, the guns I'm seeing out shooting now were not used until these last 10 years; most were missing parts, DEWATS, or simply owned by collectors who liked to dust them off in displays.
Everyones mentioning gun shows, I don't think I've ever seen much German Maxim stuff at any gun show, just odd bits here and there, or perhaps one gun in a 15,000 table show. Your odds are much better at finding spiked helmets, or even Imperial German uniform items. It is possible to get a good deal if you're keeping your eyes peeled, the best deal Ive had in years was in fact on a Maxim lock; it was the first one I have seen at a show in probably 6 years, and I haven't seen one since. I'm very glad I am able to look elsewhere!
I've been shooting these things for years, and I can tell you that more of these guns are showing up being shot all the time, they are fantastic shooters, fun, and really good to work with, try it, you'll like it!
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
As for the "not that many" guys shooting these things comment, I have no idea how many maxim owners are shooters, but as for folks posting on this board my guess would be 60% of us shoot, 39% would if there were any way possible, and 1% think it is a waste of their time and money. The 1% thing is a recent adjustment.
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
What percentage would you think are wasting their time by waiting to have one,instead of just getting one? That is where I fit in. ---bil
---bil"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert
Re: Way over priced MG-08 locks
Bil wrote:What percentage would you think are wasting their time by waiting to have one,instead of just getting one? That is where I fit in.
LOL! 100%!