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Guys take a look at an Erb registered gun and please tell me if you thinks its legit or renumbered.

I have a chance to get this one but I want to make sure its legit so any quick help would be greatly appreciated.

If the gun serial numbers match the paperwork, it's "legit".

Even the Germans renumbered parts.... What exactly is it you want to know?

jbaum thanks for the quick reply. What was worrying me was at time Charles Erb was know to renumber parts and I was hoping someone could take a look at the serial numbers on the feedblock on this one and tell me if they look correct. Its tough to find good pics to compare the fonts of serial numbers on the old gems. Thanks again for the quick help.

Well, not to point to fine a point on it, but just because the paperwork serial matches the gun really is no guarantee that the gun is "legit". There are hundreds of MGs in the NFRTR with correct/serial paperwork, but the hardware is just not quite what the model says, or the dimensions are wrong, etc and a whole raft of other types of fraudulent paperwork, both mistaken and deliberate. Looking closely at the serial under the 8 and 9 it appears that there is a purplish hue. Is that correct? The impact of the stamping of the 4 is completely different than the stamping of the 1, 8 and 9 which rings a bell or two for me, and the plate looks original rather than a new made plate, which it should be for a post-amnesty manufacture. I've seen a lot of strange serial numbers on a lot of different MGs including 08, 08/15s and other Maixims.
The best thing going for this gun is the fact that it IS registered, which goes 98% of the way to its being OK and it is very unlikely that ATF would ever make an issue of it. I've had some interesting interactions with ATF over odd permutations of serials on Maxims caught by exmainers during transfer, including two guns with the same serial number, an 08 for which there was no original registration on record in the NFRTR, but which had been transferred six or seven times and other adventures. Since the examiners never see the hardware....well, you get the point.
If the price is right, it looks to be a decent example and will be fun to have and shoot. Swiss tripods are very nice platforms from which to shoot the guns and a lot more user friendly than the sleds to take to the range. Good luck.

Bob Naess
BRMCII

Bob would you say the feed block serial numbers and proofs looks good compared to the top cover?

Yeah I think the feedblock and top cover look normal. Does look like there might have been a change to the sideplate number... but hard to tell. I would say this too. Its a sideplate gun... Matching numbers really does not mean a whole lot at this point. If the price is right, I would not let this hold up the deal!

I agree with Matt. Looks like the numbers match, and that is true of a lot of erb guns as a lot of the good parts kits came from matching number guns. That being said it is a sideplate gun and matching adds nothing to the value of a sideplate gun in my experience. I would pay a premium for a C&R mismatched gun over a matching sideplate gun and I think you will find that true of most informed buyers.
Erb was pretty good at making numbers match on the guns he built if they didnt do so when he got the parts. There definitely should be no difference in value of an erb that is matching and one that is not. It should be a good shooter and a load of fun to shoot. If it were me, and I would not be shy in the least of a sideplate 08, I would say value should be about 2k less than a c&r of comparable condition on a similar mount.
Good luck.

I think Erb stamped the numbers, at least the last three digits to make it appear as if it was a newly stamped serial, but the sideplate appears to me to be a reman, and as such was never removed from the gun. Without a thorough inspection of the internal rivets at the bottom plate and their treatment on the outside, the fit of the dovetails, the finish, and half a dozen other indicators, it isn't possible to say from the pics. The number is very suspicious, not because of the number itself, but the stamping. The 4 appears to me to be an orignal spandau stmaped number, but the rest don't. Milo is correct in wanting to know exactly what he is buying. There are a lot of bogus Maxims floating around for any of quite a variety of reasons. FWIW

Bob Naess

Bob on this gun I am ok with Erb having restamped the sideplate as long as the waterjacket, feed block, and other main parts match. Bob based on these pics would you say the feed block and water jacket serial numbers are original? Thanks everyone for the contributions.

Well, not being able to 'edit' my previous post, I will note here that I meant to say the plate on the gun does NOT look like a reman, but rather a stamped original plate. Of course, this puts it into the questionable catagory, but then join the crowd.
The other numbers look fine to me.

Bob

Everyone I really do appreciate the help and time with this one. Bob the extra mile on your part has been great, thanks so much. Forums like this help go a long way to helping folks have + experiences in the collecting & shooting world.

bmg17a1 wrote:... the plate on the gun does NOT look like a reman, but rather a stamped original plate. Of course, this puts it into the questionable catagory, but then join the crowd....

At this point, legally speaking, short of a metallurgy test or radiocarbon dating or sworn testimony by Mr. Erb himself... I don't see how the ATF could prove that the plate as newly made, remade, or just restamped. So at this point its pretty much a non issue as I see it. So long as you have the NFA paperwork, you are good to go. I think in the future, I am just going to refrain from talking about Erb Plates being restamped original plates because there is no way to prove it and it just seems to call all plate guns into question. Like you said Bob, what isn't questionable! Hell the ATF still thinks it the other sideplate that is the "receiver" and there is a very very good chance that plate is completely original! Until they unscrew that mess, talk about the left plate has even less meaning.

Back to the numbers on the top cover and feedblock, that lower case "d" is a pretty good give away as its that odd cursive letter. I have never seen a stamp like that anywhere else. No signs of welding or grinding on the numbers and does not even look reblued. All looks good. The point we were trying to make was not that he should not want to know what he is buying, its that even if the top cover, feedblock or any other parts are renumbered, it would not affect the value of the gun as its already a sideplate gun. So even if renumbered its worth the same and it should not hold him up in his purchase.

I could tell in a few minutes the nature of the plate. It's not rocket science if one's seen lots of guns. However, never,, ever sell ATF short about what they can do or not do!! It is always a gamble because they can get somone else to do what they need done or make up whatever they need to make their case. Fortunately, these issues are just not a priority for ATF and tend to put them in a poor light anyway if they push them. ATF never supervised the manufacture of contolled items from the early seventies through the end of remans in '86. It's not much different than if motor vehicle depts never looked at the cars or the VIN numbers when registering a car, or some such. sloppy, negilgent administration/regulation, but the consequences, all these years later, can and do come back to bite!

Bob