MG 08 635

[bbigbore]

Whoa, wait a minute, I've heard of MG08s being marked on both fusee cover and the topcover, but they were usually only marked on the topcover or the fusee cover with the year and factory of manufacture, but your topcover and your fusee cover are unmarked for the year and maker??? That's really odd, do I have that right???

Correct. The serial number is on the side plate, top cover, fusee cover and every other little part, but there is no date or manufacturer anywhere.

[dwmmg08]

Thinking about that, to me that means that your Fusee spring cover's been replaced at some point, by a German WWI armorer. Every battalion level Waffenmeister had a set of parts, not marked with SN, to replace broken or damaged stuff. They were supposed to mark it properly with the SN before installing it. The factory did the same thing. The newer fusee covers wouldn't have the makers year, etc on it. Of Course, the culprit could be the topcover too, but I suspect it's the fusee cover.

In other words, I don't think it's some bizzare freak or a fake, I think it's been in a war. That's actually really pretty coo!

[IMBLITZVT]

Yeah I agree, looks like a factory replacement post 1917 fusee cover. Thats pretty cool and means it is a matching part.

It just sucks thats the part that had all the manufacturers info...

[bbigbore]

I took it out for my first shoot with it yesterday. Other than a dozen ruptured cases(which made me really appreciate my Browning) from crappy ammo it works fine. Now I know why the gunners were issued those long bent needle nose pliers. I didnt try the fin belts. I bought one of those aluminum belts from IMA which worked fine as long as they were being pulled from the other side. If someone wasnt holding on, the belt fell out. The vickers belt worked fine, but my fingers are killing me from pushing the rounds in. I was next to Stemple, who gave me an actual Maxim belt that worked like a charm and was pretty easy to load. If I avoided the Yugo ammo, and stuck with the Romanian everything was fine. I'll post a vid later today or tomorrow when I get get them organized from the shoot.

Another surprise when I took it apart to clean, the barrel is also numbered to the gun. Original or not, I dont know, but its numbered.

[dwmmg08]

Interesting, the barrel appears to be marked with a "P" which would stand for "Platzpatronen" or Blank firing barrel- how wore down is it? The cases shouldn't be doing that in any case, Ive had that problem too. Is your lock matching? Also, do you have another barrel to try? The chamber could be worn a little bit over. Glad to hear you got to try it!!!

[bbigbore]

Interesting, the barrel appears to be marked with a "P" which would stand for "Platzpatronen" or Blank firing barrel- how wore down is it? The cases shouldn't be doing that in any case, Ive had that problem too. Is your lock matching? Also, do you have another barrel to try? The chamber could be worn a little bit over. Glad to hear you got to try it!!!

The barrel is in excellent shape, very crisp lands/grooves and just a bit frosty at the throat. Thats the only barrel I have. Not the original lock.

[bbigbore]

also - headspace and all is fine. The ammo was splitting because its corroding from the inside out. Another can of the same ammo from a different lot worked fine.

[bmg17a1]

This gun used to belong to Steve Davis and his partner, who had a CIII business in AL many years ago. If one looks closely at the serial stmaped on the fusee cover it is apparent that it is a modern font and not cokmparable to early German fonr ande style used to mark parts, and the original number has been overstamped. The fusee is a replacement for the Spandau fusee cover originally supplied with the gun.
I've included some pics of Spandau fusee covers and the #39 DWM fusee cover from guns in my collection.
Spandau used the same serial numbering formula as DWM with the first 10k guns without a suffix and then using 'a' for 10k to 19,999k, 'b' for 20k through 29999K, etc and leaving off the first digit on the parts and the sideplate when five digit numbers were reached. I have not encountered a topcover serial number with a suffix with the 08s.
DWM also marked the inside of the left sideplate just back of the extractor cam with "DWM", the same stamp as is used on the outside of the right sideplate. Sometimes the last two digits of the serial number are found under the recoil plate support when they are removed from the plate.
I have not found that Spandau marked the inside of the left sideplates.
I have several of the same type of muzzle glands as assembled to your gun, and they are from the brass Maxim production, DWM, Nordenfelt and Enfield best I can determine, and will fit other makes and vintages of Maxims.
Hope this is of interest/use.

Bob Naess

[bbigbore]

This gun used to belong to Steve Davis and his partner, who had a CIII business in AL many years ago. If one looks closely at the serial stmaped on the fusee cover it is apparent that it is a modern font and not cokmparable to early German fonr ande style used to mark parts, and the original number has been overstamped. The fusee is a replacement for the Spandau fusee cover originally supplied with the gun.

Bob Naess

Thanks for the info.


I know its a replacement, but was thinking as mentioned earlier in the thread it was replaced by someone while in service. The knob on the fusee spring and scale are all numbered 635.

The font on the inside of the cover doesnt match the SN, but it matches all the other numbers on the gun.




What year would you say it was made? Im guessing between 1906 and 1910.

[bbigbore]

can someone tell me how to edit posts? I must be missing something? I see now the "3" is different, I'll have to look closer at the other numers on the scale and crank.

[bmg17a1]

I doubt very much that the new numbers stamped here and there are from any early arsenal repair or re-numbering. The fonts are modern, not vintage, and there are a very wide variety of vintage fonts and styles, which is not true at all with modern stamps. There is no way those fonts are vintage, in my experience. the tops of the oil brushes also show evidence of metal removal and polishing.
It has been very common over many years for owners to remove non-matchng numbers and restamp them so the parts appear to be all matching to the serial number. I've seen it on many MGs and other guns since I was kid! An interesting example are the 34s and 42s. The 34s were very popular in the early seventies and up until the early eighties when people started hearing and seeing 42s at shoots and being veyr impressed with them. The 34s were all well numbered on parts, but the 42s were not as few examples remain with more than a few parts numbered. Since 34s were numbered, eveyone thought for quite some time that all the parts of 42s would be numbered and owners set about dong just that. Having seen many, many 42s, worked on and repaired many and owned quite a few, a lot of them have modern stamped numbers on various parts, and sometimes even modern pantographed numbers and letters. They are easy to spot.
Nothing wrong with the numbers being restamped as that is the current character of the gun, but it is always evident to anyone familiar with the orignal styles, sizes, etc. I've often replaced vintage parts that have been renumbered with vintage non-matchng parts so at least the parts are correct and not altered, even though the numbers still don't match. I've also had single or several vintage stamps made to replace stampes numbers that were illegilbe or restamped incorrectly.

Bob Naess
Black River Militaria CII

[bmg17a1]

If it is of any interest to you, under the thread titled "Rare and battle damaged maxim parts", I've posted a couple pics of some of the various Maxims in my collection. They have fascinated me for many years and have been a personal specialty of mine for a long time.

Bob Naess

[Bil]

It is nice to see you posting on here more often,Bob.Good to have someone that has as much experiance with various MGs,and reknown in the gun world.Every time I see you post,I remind myself to go visit,I have gone by your place for years not knowing it,and you are not that far away!I would have to bring my smelling salts,I would feel faint seeing some of that stuff! ---bil

[IMBLITZVT]

You know I think you can see that the fusee serial number is stamped over another serial number.

No you can not edit your posts after a few mins... I have no idea why as its retarded! I think the Mods are afraid of people going back and removing info...

"I've .... 'a' for 10k to 19,999k, 'b' for 20k through 29999K, etc and leaving off the first digit on the parts and the sideplate when five digit numbers were reached. I have not encountered a topcover serial number with a suffix with the 08s."

Interesting, I will have to take a look at mine. I have noticed DWM never used the a,b,c thing on the top covers. I had not noticed that with spandau as most of their parts are marked with a,b,or c.

I have also found it interesting that DWM marked the 08s "DWM" and the 08/15s "DW&MF"... assuming they are the same DWM.

[bmg17a1]

Thanks for your kind words, bil, and you are welcome here any time you care to visit. I go by Brookline now and then on my way to West Townsend, so I know about where you are.
And, anyone else on these boards who might be travelling in the vicinity of my place are also welcome.
Since every collector has different specific interests about various weapons, I consider my collection a useful resource for all, and also find that an area that is not of interest to me is illuminated for me by someone else's curiousity and then I learn something new, too. We have such limited exposure to these types of guns, given the often large numbers made and the few available to private collectors, that revealing the details of their history can be quite difficult. As Matt pointed out in a post, the 1910 Russian Maxims are frustrating because there are so many small variable details that are almost impossible to source and catalogue given that over 750k of the guns were made and the available pool of guns for us to inspect and handle is tiny. The German Maxims are quite a bit more accessible in this regard for various reasons.
However, the depth of the mystery of the Maxim guns remains and probably will so for a long, long time, and I feel somewhat sorry for the Thompson guys, for example, for whom the mysteries of the guns have virtually all been revealed. 8^/

Bob Naess

[IMBLITZVT]

..... However, the depth of the mystery of the Maxim guns remains and probably will so for a long, long time, and I feel somewhat sorry for the Thompson guys, for example, for whom the mysteries of the guns have virtually all been revealed. 8^/

Haha... yeah those Tommy gun guys are getting into the manual differences... into finding foreign manuals... basically at this point are book collectors! Still cool stuff but Maxims are a lot more interesting in the "hunt".

I know because we have a local chapter of the Thompson collectors here in MD. Actually we have the national tommy gun shoot coming up Aug 1. I see some tommy guns on that wall Bob... you should take a break from all that work and come down and shoot with us. I won the "spray and pray" last year (20rds, one trigger pull, 7 yards as many hits on a 8.5x11 as you can get) with a borrowed gun. They had two other events as well. It was a lot of fun... plus they have a great display better than the one at the SAR show with that really cool 30-06 thompson.

Yeah I don't know if we will ever know half of what went on with those Russian Maxims. Between the constant rebuilds and the Finnish capturing half of them (Joking), it makes it real hard! That along with the idea that they were made for what 4-5 times as long as the Germans made them and probably 10x more of them... there are still pieces we know existed but no one has an example of today! Like that early booster we were talking about. Even our contacts in Russia seem to know little about them. It really sucks, that 1910 optic top never did make it here. Oh well I tried! Maybe one day the bunker full of them will get opened and we can all get one for $10 each!

You know I find it interesting how collecting goes. I love the German maxims. I love the Russian Maxim, well a bit less. The Chinese are awesome too. However the Finnish maxims don't do nearly as much for me and I only just like the vickers... a basic gun is all I need in my collection. I guess maybe this will change in time... but for now I am working on a ZF12 collection (has anyone really looked at how many different variations there are, even within the same manufacturer!) and I am thinking of getting one of all the different manufacturer's top covers (early and late styles).

[dwmmg08]

I have always been fascinated by the German Maxims, and the history there. Love it!

There are a huge variety of ZF12 sights, and you're right, even within the same maker! I suspect that the contract specs for them were basically 1) Had to fit the gun 2) had to be x power 3) had to adjust distance 4) had to be able to take a beating and... other than that, after the war began, have at it on trying to make one, if you're an optics firm! There are a huge variety of them out there, and they often are in pretty good shape. I just wish someone made the leather or in some cases case, rubber eyecups for them, many of them out there are basically destroyed now.

[bbigbore]

This gun used to belong to Steve Davis and his partner, who had a CIII business in AL many years ago. If one looks closely at the serial stmaped on the fusee cover it is apparent that it is a modern font and not cokmparable to early German fonr ande style used to mark parts, and the original number has been overstamped.
Bob Naess

I bought the gun from Steve Davis, who brokered the estate of his partner who originally registered the gun. Dolf Goldsmith personally went over this gun and believes all the numbers are vintage/correct for the time period of the gun. If you look close in his book, you'll find other parts numbered in the same font style.

[bbigbore]

Can those of you with 08s post some pics of the numbers on your guns? I only have a sample of one to work from here. I'm still wondering about some of these numbers. I don't think all of these were stamped when it was built over 100yrs ago, but I don't think someone got bored and numbered it for the heck of it, and I know the guy registered it didnt do it. Assumptions are nice, but I love documented facts if any exist in the form of pics or official notes.

[CaptMax]

What can I say..........BEAUTIFUL MAXIM. I guess that covers it. I bet you will keep that one for a long time won't you?
CaptMax