Starting a TIG weld?
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PvtJoker
Starting a TIG weld?
Hi. I got one of the HF TIG welders, and as I understand it, these have to be started by dragging the tip across a piece of copper or some such. But I haven't seen anything on how big of a piece, if it needs to be copper, how it needs to be attached to the work, or how far away from the weld it needs to be. Sorry if this is too Noob of a question, but I'd rather ask first than mess up something by just trying to wing it. Any advice?
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elmacgyver0
The copper can be clamped to your work piece near the spot your going to weld. It makes it easyer to strike an arc with out contaminating your electrode. It is very easy to firmly weld your electrode to your work piece, at whitch point you say a few majic words, break off the contaminated end of the electrode and regrind the tip and start over. For size and position a little expermenting with some scrap steel is a good idea. Try some copper about the thickness of a penny to start.
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propos
I doesn't need to be any bigger than 1"x1". You can clamp it with a pair of vise grips, metal spring clamp, or just use the filler rod to hold it while you strike an arc. Sometimes you can't clamp it so then I hold the copper strip down with my filler rod. Maybe a 1/4" or so away from the area you intend to weld is sufficient. It depends on access.
You don't drag the tungsten along the metal. Lay one side of the cup on the metal then tilt it towards the metal. You can make sort of a scratching motion if you want. You'll know when you are about to get an arc because the sound of the machine humming will start to change. If the tungsten sticks to the copper you should still be good to go. The copper won't contaminate the tungsten like steel will. As soon as you have an arc, move the stinger to the area to be welded and have at it. Once you get the hang of it, you find it works pretty good. Need I say that you have to keep the arc going while you do this. Otherwise you're back to square 1.
You've got to play around with this until you get a good feel for what is happening.
You don't need to have the tungsten sticking out from the cup like a stiff you know what. I usually try to have about 1/8" or less sticking out. You get better gas shielding that way.
Keep your bench grinder handy. Inevitably you'll get too close to the weld and stick or suck up molten steel onto your tungsten or hit it with the filler rod. You'll know when to regrind the tip as the "flame" or arc, will widen. Stop and remove the tungsten and regrind the tip to a nice sharp point.
All this ain't rocket science. Practice and more practice will have you welding unlike a pro in no time. You'll eventually develope your own technique or "style" if you will.
Probably the weld that I am proudest of is in the section of the receiver where the charging handle rides in that groove. There isn't much room to manuever in there. I used a #4 cup instead of my usual #5. And I got a damn nice welded joint when I was finished.
Well, I hope this makes things somewhat clearer. Have fun and enjoy the welding.
You don't drag the tungsten along the metal. Lay one side of the cup on the metal then tilt it towards the metal. You can make sort of a scratching motion if you want. You'll know when you are about to get an arc because the sound of the machine humming will start to change. If the tungsten sticks to the copper you should still be good to go. The copper won't contaminate the tungsten like steel will. As soon as you have an arc, move the stinger to the area to be welded and have at it. Once you get the hang of it, you find it works pretty good. Need I say that you have to keep the arc going while you do this. Otherwise you're back to square 1.
You've got to play around with this until you get a good feel for what is happening.
You don't need to have the tungsten sticking out from the cup like a stiff you know what. I usually try to have about 1/8" or less sticking out. You get better gas shielding that way.
Keep your bench grinder handy. Inevitably you'll get too close to the weld and stick or suck up molten steel onto your tungsten or hit it with the filler rod. You'll know when to regrind the tip as the "flame" or arc, will widen. Stop and remove the tungsten and regrind the tip to a nice sharp point.
All this ain't rocket science. Practice and more practice will have you welding unlike a pro in no time. You'll eventually develope your own technique or "style" if you will.
Probably the weld that I am proudest of is in the section of the receiver where the charging handle rides in that groove. There isn't much room to manuever in there. I used a #4 cup instead of my usual #5. And I got a damn nice welded joint when I was finished.
Well, I hope this makes things somewhat clearer. Have fun and enjoy the welding.
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PvtJoker
I assume a cut and flattened copper pipe coupling would work OK then for a pad?Here is a link that has information on helmets:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledg ... lenses.asp
I like the statement:
"Since high-quality auto-darkening helmets provide UV and IR protection even when the helmet is not activated, you are always protected. However, for maximum comfort, look for a high quality helmet that has a response darkening time of 4/10ths of a millisecond. Less than a millisecond is not perceivable by the human eye and will provide the most comfort. "
The way I read it is that the filter gives the UV and IR protection and the darkening is for comfort. This would appear to be a safer than a fixed filter when you strike an arc.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledg ... lenses.asp
I like the statement:
"Since high-quality auto-darkening helmets provide UV and IR protection even when the helmet is not activated, you are always protected. However, for maximum comfort, look for a high quality helmet that has a response darkening time of 4/10ths of a millisecond. Less than a millisecond is not perceivable by the human eye and will provide the most comfort. "
The way I read it is that the filter gives the UV and IR protection and the darkening is for comfort. This would appear to be a safer than a fixed filter when you strike an arc.
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propos
Yes, a cut and flattened piece of copper will work perfectly. If I'm working on a rounded surface, I bend the copper t fit the radius. I have my copper pieces in a box and I just pick a piece out that suits at the time. I use copper tubing that has been cut and flattened. As long as it isn't foil it will work. I even have some thin sheet copper that was used to laminate counter tops that I use at times.
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Sherman
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propos
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Village
I hope not to wander off topic.
This evening I finally got to play with my new HF TIG welder. After zapping some scrap metal I then tried to weld the Wiselite bearing onto the shroud. The welds on the shroud were nothing like the scrap metal
The welds looked like they had air bubbles in them but then popped, and even though I started the arc on a piece of copper the tungsten would ball up in no time. Here are the basic settings: power on 4-5, gas at 15pph, #6 cup, 1/16in tungsten sticking out about 3/16in. Propos, just to be clear, are you saying that you can start the arc without actually touching the tungsten on the copper? I thought I was getting close but ultimately had to strike the tungsten across the copper to get it started. Could that be my core problem?
I've never welded before so please tell me if there's something really obvious I'm missing. Thanks!
This evening I finally got to play with my new HF TIG welder. After zapping some scrap metal I then tried to weld the Wiselite bearing onto the shroud. The welds on the shroud were nothing like the scrap metal
The welds looked like they had air bubbles in them but then popped, and even though I started the arc on a piece of copper the tungsten would ball up in no time. Here are the basic settings: power on 4-5, gas at 15pph, #6 cup, 1/16in tungsten sticking out about 3/16in. Propos, just to be clear, are you saying that you can start the arc without actually touching the tungsten on the copper? I thought I was getting close but ultimately had to strike the tungsten across the copper to get it started. Could that be my core problem?
I've never welded before so please tell me if there's something really obvious I'm missing. Thanks!
It sounds like you just got your welder-you will want to practice a lot with it before you use it on your receiver.Scrap is easier to find,you don't want to make more.Try using various pieces and thicknesses.You are welding a machined part to sheet metal,this is much different than welding just sheet metal.I would keep working on scrap and maybe some auto pieces before you do the receiver.I know I made a mess of some valuable parts before I got so I was halfway confidant with a welder.Fortunately they weren't MG parts.Good luck with your project. ---bil
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propos
village. Yes you do have to scratch the tungsten on the copper. The copper prevents the tip from sticking. Generally. Although I have managed to do it.
I use a 3/32" 2% thoriated tungsten electrode. I use the #5 cup. As far as the bubbles, it could be contamination or the area not being shielded enough by the gas.
One of the more experienced welders can tell you what is causing it. You could be pulling the electrode away from the welded spot too soon. If you listen you will hear gas being released after the arc is broken for a few seconds. My understanding is that helps the weld from cratering by cooling down too fast and also shields it. Again. the pros can tell you better than I.
One thing that I generally do is when I have the bead completed, instead of lifting the tungsten away, I move it over to the copper strike plate and then break the arc. That seems to help get a better weld.
I'm still a rank amateur when it comes to welding. I'm only giving you my experiences and what I have done to learn this welding thing.
As bil has said, welding 2 pieces of sheet metal together is different than trying to weld a machined thicker piece to the thinner sheet metal. I suggest that you get some thicker steel and practice welding that and sheet metal together. The thicker metal takes longer to melt than the thinner sheet metal. I start the puddle on the thick metal which then helps melt a puddle on the thinner metal. Then dip your filler rod in the puddle. Does that make sense?
I remember when I first practiced welding. I blew some real neat holes in the metal until I got the hang of it with the right setting, etc. Generally I have the control set on 4 or a little less for the sheet metal. The only time I turned it up to 5 was when I welded up a thick rod for a poker.
Play around with the power setting on different thicknesses of metal. Different alloys weld differently too. You have to experiment. Lately I have been welding 4130 to whatever alloy the Poles used in their PPS43's. So I had to adjust the power setting until I got the right combination.
Keep practicing, you'll get the hang of it.
I use a 3/32" 2% thoriated tungsten electrode. I use the #5 cup. As far as the bubbles, it could be contamination or the area not being shielded enough by the gas.
One of the more experienced welders can tell you what is causing it. You could be pulling the electrode away from the welded spot too soon. If you listen you will hear gas being released after the arc is broken for a few seconds. My understanding is that helps the weld from cratering by cooling down too fast and also shields it. Again. the pros can tell you better than I.
One thing that I generally do is when I have the bead completed, instead of lifting the tungsten away, I move it over to the copper strike plate and then break the arc. That seems to help get a better weld.
I'm still a rank amateur when it comes to welding. I'm only giving you my experiences and what I have done to learn this welding thing.
As bil has said, welding 2 pieces of sheet metal together is different than trying to weld a machined thicker piece to the thinner sheet metal. I suggest that you get some thicker steel and practice welding that and sheet metal together. The thicker metal takes longer to melt than the thinner sheet metal. I start the puddle on the thick metal which then helps melt a puddle on the thinner metal. Then dip your filler rod in the puddle. Does that make sense?
I remember when I first practiced welding. I blew some real neat holes in the metal until I got the hang of it with the right setting, etc. Generally I have the control set on 4 or a little less for the sheet metal. The only time I turned it up to 5 was when I welded up a thick rod for a poker.
Play around with the power setting on different thicknesses of metal. Different alloys weld differently too. You have to experiment. Lately I have been welding 4130 to whatever alloy the Poles used in their PPS43's. So I had to adjust the power setting until I got the right combination.
Keep practicing, you'll get the hang of it.
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Village
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Belt-driven
Re: Starting a TIG weld?
When I first bought my brand new Lincoln SP175 MIG welder I had a lot of splatter and very porous welds. I was greatly disappointed and wondered how MIG welding was advertised to be so superior to gas welding. Having no prior experience and no mentor left me in quite a quandary.
After a while I came to learn that a joint inside the welder on the gun hose was loose, leaving most of the gas to purge the spool box. Tightened all the gas hose joints and I was back in business.
When I bought my TIG under similar pretense, I checked the gas joints first.
After a while I came to learn that a joint inside the welder on the gun hose was loose, leaving most of the gas to purge the spool box. Tightened all the gas hose joints and I was back in business.
When I bought my TIG under similar pretense, I checked the gas joints first.
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striker754
- Oberst
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Re: Starting a TIG weld?
If you can afford it and justify, buy a TIG with a footpedal. Its in a league of its own. Much more control. You'll use it for everything.