Imperial German Machine Gunner's Uniform, 1914-1915?

[Gamburd]

I am trying to find out more about the Imperial German Machine Gunner's Line Infantry uniform (not the Light Infantry or Jager), during the period from August, 1914-1915 (through the battle of Loos in September, 1915).

I know this forum is mainly about the actual MG08, and not a uniform forum, but I am really interested in uniforms too.

I have some photos from some Russian Reenactors who staged a reenactment somewhere outside Moscow a couple years back,

Uniforms look great (notice the Brandenburg cuff!), EXCEPT the white strap that crosses the chest in some of these photos; the white strap looks absolutely unhistorical:






The Gunner is a Sergeant; you can tell because of the collar button:









The white strap looks wrong; I'm not sure what it i for, maybe it holds the tin can; they didn't wear that white strap or tin can:










OK, I have some questions about the Imperial German Machine Gunner's kit.

Where they only personally armed with P08 Lugers in WWI (and of course, the MG)? They did not carry rifles??

Also, one of the Osprey military history booklets said each man carried four special ammunition pouches (I think they are referring to the P08 pistol); does anyone have any photos of these special ammo pouches??

And does any one know the number and structure of an Imperial German MG Crew for this time period???

I have seen a 1917 photo (the very famous photo of an MG Crew inside some sort of bunker), and there is an officer (not sure of the rank; perhaps a Leutnant?).

So I am thinking in 1914-15, there may have been an officer, and NCO (perhaps a Sergeant), and I don't know how many men (4-5?) in a MG Crew, but that is only speculation, and I am seeking a definitive answer.


Some of the men wore a MG drag strap to move the MG08 on its sled; does anyone have any photos of the MG drag strap or own an accurate replica??

Also, was there a special entrenching tool that was part of the MG Crew's kit??

If anyone can help, I would appreciate it.

[IMBLITZVT]

I can't really help you with all of that. There was a post a while back on the dragging straps.

I noticed more the WWII Russian Maxim they were using with a very odd Sokolov wheeled mount where the wheels were replaced with another rear brace.

Looks interesting!

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I LOVE the pictures!

[www.Prussia.us]

I am surprised they did not use an early smooth Russian water jacket to better simulate the Mg08, but I agree with DA, neat pictures.

[dwmmg08]

Hi!

Ok, as you know, I am a WWI German (Prussian) re-enactor, and have been interested in this for some time. To begin with, a whole lot of stuff in those pics is just wrong, but I'll just point out the tractor cap on the fluted waterjacket, and leave it at that....

Ok, most of my studies are of MG crews in 1916-18, as thats the years we've mostly been re-enacting in the GWA and out here in the west. MG08 crews still have the dragging straps. The straps were leather at first, but later changed to cloth straps, but not ever white that I can find. You can find both in the same MG team in pictures, they don't appear to have made any distinction, but I think they quit making the leather straps during the war. (a strap is a strap is a strap) All the cloth straps I have seen have been a field grey or khaki color. All the leather, brown. While most leather items were ordered blackened in 1915, I still have not seen a single blackened for sure leather strap, but they probably were out there. Like a lot of things, there was just not a chance to do all this, I think. For helmets, prewar, the MGK did use the Jaeger shako, which is what you're probably thinking; it's confusing, as there were a lot of uniform changes during this time; the rapidly expanding MG kompanies affected this as well as they were being fit into the army. I have seen plenty with Pickelhaubes early and pre war, so I believe that regulation and quite a few others changed just a few years prior to the ballon going up. I'll dig up some pictures and post them for you.

[Hatter]

Long time lurker first time poster.... (wonder how many posts start off like this? )

It appears as though the white strap goes to the gas mask tin (the round tin off the right hip).

During the war both sides used "war gas" although the allied less so than the germans due to the prevailing wind. having read several accounts (and being in an unfortunate chemistry lab experiment gone wrong) I can say chlorine gas is not very nice at all and I'd be making sure I had my mask with me.

I too would be interested as I moonlight between manning a Krupp 77's and various Maxims (08 and 08/15's, the benefits of a classical education )

nightbattle.jpg

Hatter

[Bil]

Nice to see you post-almost 3 years since joining and nothing to say-that must be a record! Where do you do your re-enactments? ---bil

[alpencorps]

Hallo Gamburd,

attached, please find pics from the Bavarian 4. Machinegun Sniper Unit (MG ScharfschuetzenAbteilung Nr 4 (MGSSA 4)
Its a late Styl Jacket (Bluse Mod 15) and the late Styl draging Strap, made from paper, (Ersatzstoff)
The Unifor is typical for middle/end of 1917 up to end of War.

More old pics pleas find on http://www.mg08.de

Greetings from Bavaria
Alpencorps

[www.Prussia.us]

Paper dragging straps, now that is industrious

Great contributions guys.

[Gamburd]

Thanks everyone for their answers and comments.

And dwmmg08, I would appreciate any photos that you could post; the photos are very helpful.


In the black and white photo from a book I own about the Battle of the Marne in 1914, the soldier on the left of the MG has his hand on his P08 holster; it looks like he has either a bayonet or trench knife (anyone know for sure which it is??); looks like there is a small pouch of some sort near the bayonet of knife's handle.

I can see a water bottle to the which is roughly at the right corner of the photo.

It looks like there is something between the bayonet / knife and water bottle, but I can't quite make that out.

Anyone know what that is??

You can also see the Gunner's P08 holster.








In the color photo of the group in line, one man to the right is wear a replica cloth drag strap.

Dwmmg08, does the replica cloth drag strap that man is wearing look accurate??

[IMBLITZVT]

MAN! They are shooting that 1910 off a post WWI Mod MG08 Sled! Now thats a rare piece! I hate to see a damn Russian gun on top of it. Its a shame its not over here!

[www.Prussia.us]

Good Point Matt,

Back during the Yeltsin-everything is for sale, but most live in poverty era, you probably could have procured it for a case of Vodka

[alpencorps]

hallo

I post yesterday 4 pics from Original Uniform WW1 Era,
what going on with this pics, they are gone, delete??

i try it a second time!!

Greetings
Alpncorps

[Bil]

Thanks for reposting them-I have no idea where the others went,I know I saw them! ---bil

[MarkFinneran]

Great images. I dont think it is a secret but I am desperate to locate and purchase WWI drag straps and in so doing and have so far found 5 genuine WWI variants. (My wife is on standby to be sold if anyone has one/some for sale).
Cloth, ersatz, leather all correct and either with leather, cloth or bare metal handles.
Your image Alencorps is superb and shows a fine example and it reminds me of my earlier thread about broken drag straps, ie just the handles and hook being used to manouvre/drag a sled in a hurry. I have still to confirm that authenticity with a period image but for functional purposes it makes sense. I have seen a sled in the vaults of a museum in UK that has a partial drag strap hook/handle still attached but of course cannot verify WHEN that was put on!!
Use of drag straps as mauser AT rifle sling? Again who knows.

[fredi]

i have a photo of my uncle in the trenches about 1917 with m/g there is a story that goes with it but i haven't sorted out how to past it on here its late and I'm fed up will attempt to morrow regards Fredi PS
i also have a couple more of him in uniform