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might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

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might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby ajmdreammg42 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:33 pm

Ok guys this is my first post here on this site so please take it easy on me. My friend has a CRA full auto registered Mg42 that is offering me to buy. we have not decided on a price yet so here's where I need the advice. I have seen recently prices have come down on these. I see one on gunbroker for 29.995 with tripod , 308 conversion, extra barrels etc, in nice shape. another one in shotgun news for 28k unknown shape and another I have seen on subguns for around 26k. the one he has is a little worn and has some issues with it. You cannot load it with opening the top cover and closing it, you have to use a starter tab and pull it threw other wise it jams, also it has problems with the bolt staying back and actually had a round go off by itself and not pulling the trigger. The blueing on it is pretty worn on the rachet plate and all around the rear receiver , front end is ok. I have heard most class 3 dealers only give you about 50% to 80% of the guns worth. So here is what I am thinking. If they are going between 26K to roughly 30K for a nice one , that means a dealer would only pay 13K to 24K for one ? I believe my friend wants to sell it to me for a dealers cost so what should I start the offer at ? I was thinking around 15k since he has some assy with it, 308 coversion kit, drums,belts,loader and maybe some other stuff. He is a good friend but I have to get a loan to afford this AND convice my wife I need this and believe me thats going to be some sweet talking convincing going one. I have wanted one of these all my life and this probably my only chance to get one, any advice and insite would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby DARIVS ARCHITECTVS » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:16 pm

This is a tough call. An MG-42 with such problems could be fixed but only with a fair dose of parts replacement, so if you go with his gun, you will have to 1) learn the source of the problems after learning precisely what the parts do and how they interact and 2) start the process of locating GERMAN, not Yugo spare parts to replace worn, damaged, or non-fitting parts. It may be that some crucial parts like the top feed cover, which greatly affect the position and operation of the feed mechanism, are NOT original to THIS gun. Yeah, you may be able to negotiate a price cut because the gun has problems, but you wil find your buddy will not let thousands of dollars go. After dickering with price, and risking insulting the seller, you may decide to save yourself the agony of trying to heal a sick gun by paying for one of the MG-42's on one of the other auctions instead. You are starting off at a disadvantage of not knowing how the parts interact. This knowledge takes time, and it's a LOT easier to gain that experience by operating a WORKING gun than fumbling around trying to fix a very sick one. You have to weigh these factors carefully. My experience owning a reliable MG-42 and having bad ammo and damaged belts cause problems taught me a lot without trying to figure out if it was the ammo, the belts, or the gun. If you have a problem that stems from multiple things contributing to it, the problem will be very difficult to understand, and you may spend time and money and ammo trying to isolate all the contributing factors before you FINALLY lick it. It is usually best to get the BEST condition weapon you can. YOu don't waste ammo and money, and the gun holds more value for resale. When it comes to collecting vintage firearms as INVESTMENTS, there are three things to consider: 1) condition 2) Condition and 3) CONDITION. If you LIKE solving problems, a fixer-upper may be for you, but you WILL spend hard money fixing it. How much is not determinable.

I just went through the publically documented process of investigating and repairing the problems in a C&R MP-44. It was badly damaged by a careless idiot with a grinder trying to remove weld metal that had made the weapon a de-activated war trophy. So, I can tell you that embarking on a fixer-upper project is fraught with risks. In my case, I took a great risk with the ability of me and the former owner being able to trust and be patient with one another. a LOT of money was involved. Estimating the price of a damaged/non-working gun is VERY difficult. You may also risk your buddy's friendship with you as part of you adventure in fixing his former MG-42. Something to consider.
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby Panzercanuck » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:29 am

Very tough call.wow

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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby JBaum » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:34 am

First, mg dealers do not pay 50% of retail. Typically it is 80-90%. If it were 50%, everyone, myself included, would be getting dealer licenses.

The gun has problems, but nothing that can't be fixed by swapping out some parts. The bolt staying back is most likely due to a worn trigger grip assembly or a worn bolt, or both. The grip is a $125 or so 60 second fix. Replacing the bolt is $75-$100 (another 60 seconds). Recommended is to put in an MG3 bolt with internal catch. MG3 bolts fit perfectly with no modification.

Could the problem be from the present operator not knowing how to run the gun? Lots of car owners don't know how to drive correctly, they just know how to get the car to go down the road (more or less). Could be he's trying to load the gun with the bolt forward because he doesn't know any better, or has already bent the pressure plate by slamming the cover down with the bolt in the way. Maybe he ran the old 8 cents a shot junk ammo through it and it's cruddy inside. Could be a weak recoil spring or lack of lubrication. All these fixes are cheap. Virtually the entire gun can be swapped of parts. It's the receiver that's important.

A new feed tray and top cover will likely take care of the feed troubles. Since this gun is a shooter and not a safe queen, no trouble there.... MG3 (.308) parts will fit, and if you still want to shoot 8mm, then those parts are still commonly available for reasonable money $175? for the pair.

A refinish/reblue takes care of the appearance of the gun. Ohio Ordnance would be a prime place to send/take it for a complete going over. Since it's C&R, get a C&R license, and you'll be allowed to cross state lines with it without further paperwork and you could drop it off, spend the day going to the rock and roll hall of fame in Cleveland, and then go pick it up the next day.

Learning how the gun works is easy, but will take a few hours. This is not a glorified Garand or M1A. It's a serious MG which needs understanding to run correctly. Read everything here, and buy a manual or two to see how it all works.

Those are asking prices you quoted. The actual price the seller will accept is likely less. If you can do it for around $25,000, do it. It won't get cheaper, will only go up in price, and if the kids are fed and the bills are paid, toys are what you are working for, right? I went to the bank for the money to get mine.... I've never regretted it for a second.

For the right price, buying a fixer upper is great, especially when it just takes swapping a few available parts and a re-blue to do it.

Darius bought a different gun with serious problems that the seller didn't tell him about. Major headache to get it worked on..... an MG42 isn't that much trouble due to parts being easily exchanged. No tough call here.

And if he decides to sell it for $15,000, and your wife won't let you, let me know right away. I'll be there the next day with the cash, fingerprint forms, and a Form 4 for him to sign. Seriously.
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby DARIVS ARCHITECTVS » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:39 am

John feels confident that he could solve the problems this gun has. With help of experienced MG-42 owners, you may be able to do the same. It all depends on what the problem is. A warped reciever, for example, would be a condition that required more work than a parts swapout. I'm saying be careful not to make assumptions without being able to inspect the gun firsthand AND if you don't understand how the parts work. You have seen this gun, but we haven't. Be thankful this is an MG-42 we are talking about and not an MG-34. They are more complicated and take more study and testing to diagnose problems with.

I have a hunch that your buddy will not accept $15000 as an offer. Sounds too low based on the problems you have described. You'll have to ask him what he will accept to find out. Admittedly, the circumstances between this deal and the one I made involving repair to an MP-44 are different in key ways. The tough call part has a lot to do with whether a deal of this size can become a problem with regard to relationship between two friends.
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby JBaum » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:01 am

It sounds like other than how to load the gun, it runs fine once it's loaded the way it likes it. If it runs OK once it is loaded the way it likes to be loaded, the receiver is ok. If the receiver is OK, the rest is just a matter of swapping parts, or at worst, a trip to a gun shop to tweak it a bit.

On a side note, you should not decide what to offer him for it. That's not your job. He's the seller, he needs to set the price.

If he would have accepted $15,000 and you offer him $20,000, you're giving away your money. If he wants $25,000 and you offer him $15,000, he'll feel insulted.

Sellers sell, buyers buy. Haggling goes on once a price has been established, which is the responsibility of the seller. He's insistent that you make him an offer? Offer him $10 and say "There, that's an offer, now what do you want?" He knows what he wants, what he'd like to get, and what he'll accept. Why would he possibly want you to make an offer, if not for hope that you're going to offer more than he wanted to start with?

You wouldn't go to a used car dealer and tell them how much you're willing to pay for a car before you find out how much they're asking, would you?
Last edited by JBaum on Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby longhorn109 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:42 am

If you can go and take a load of pictures and post them here. Apart from the fact we all like gun porn we may see something that is causing the issues. We should also be able to give you an idea if the parts in it look original WW2 or Yugo. As long as the receiver is ok the rest is straight forward to swap about. Get a parts kit and you will have all the spares you need to diagnose the fault and you can replace any non WW2 parts at your leisure.

Really he should be giving you a price for the gun, then negotiations start.
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby longhorn109 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:47 am

Oh a heads up by the way never, never ever say MG42 and trunion in the same sentence. You will see a flash on the horizon if you do as the MG42 doesn't have one. It is a pet peeve of a member here ;)
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby Michael J » Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:18 pm

i would like to emphasize, these guns will work with swapped out parts, just like their semi-auto variants. But a damaged receiver is a tough thing to fix... Parts kits are cheap, as said before , replacing parts is easily enough done.
Check this gun out in person, strip her down to the bare receiver, and bring some measuring devices. Your eye will pick up any major warping or damage to the receiver, but you are best to be safe and bring some tools for inspecting it along with you.

Good luck with this, i only wish i could offer you some more advice, but we don't got FA guns up north here :( !
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby ajmdreammg42 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:47 pm

Dang, just spent the last hour responding to all your posts and the site asked me to log in again and I lost everthing. I will get back to you guys on this another night , out of time tonight

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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby JBaum » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:01 am

ajmdreammg42 wrote:Dang, just spent the last hour responding to all your posts and the site asked me to log in again and I lost everthing. I will get back to you guys on this another night , out of time tonight


When it does that, hit "back", and your message will still be there, then open a new tab and log in. Go back to the first tab, and submit the message..... :shock:
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby ajmdreammg42 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:04 am

I sure wasn't expecting a huge responce like this thanks for all the advice guys

Darivs Architectvs
After looking at your rank and post count it seems like I am geting advice from the obi-won-konobe of the mg42 world. 1) I have'nt really had a chance to sit down and study what exactly is the problems with this gun, but that is a very good suggestion. 2) I have a full german kit allready and 5 yugo kits with some german parts in them. I am building several MG42 semi's and have 3 full lenght BRP receivers and a nice 3 saw cut receiver and another that will be about a 5 cut. I have studied the semi's a little but I really need to get my hands on a functional gun and spend a day with it and reading the manual with it. TIME is my worst enemy , I have very little of it I can afford. good luck with your MP44

Panzercanuk
yes very tough call but its going to be tuffer to convince my wife I need this gun

Jbaum,
You are right, the owner ( nor I) knew how to run the gun. I did not relize you have to have the bolt back to close the top cover !! ( note to self- read the manual) Athough it still did jam when we feed it threw the side. I think it has multiple problems but like you said it's just a matter of swapping out parts. I like to fix everything myself, in fact I am setting up a gun shop someday . So far I have a lathe, mill , 20 ton hyd press, 330 amp miller tig welder, huge sand blaster, park and blueing tanks with burners and stands, I just need a HD air compressor and some chemicals and I'll be in business. I even bought 9 acres beside me so some day I can build a real shop and retire to do the things I love to do, fix, build ,buy , military guns

longhorn109,
maybe I can go over my friends house and take some pics and study the gun a little , yes we all love a little gun porn. problem is that he lives 1 1/2 hours away and I an only home for a couple days a week cause I am working out of town right now and don't know when I will transfered back, 9-11 and this economy really screwed up my career

Michael J
What measuring devices are you talking about ? And what do I measure ? what tools do I need beside the normal, strong flash light, mirror. bore lite ?


I have no ideal what my friend is going to want for it . I heard him say a couple of years ago they go for 15K on up so who knows what his thinking is about it. He is a really nice guy and has giving me good deals in the past. He sold me that nice 3 saw cut Mg42 receiver a couple of years ago for 200.00 and I told him at the time they were going for 800.00. also about 3 weeks ago when he came over to shoot he GAVE me a lee
sniper scope ( # 32 mark 2) I had know ideal they were worth much. I know I am going to show him the ads for the above guns for sale on the web and go from there. I do not want to screw this up cause he has more he is going to sell like a worn but matching MP40, nice MP5 and some other silenced gun. I would like to get them all from him but allready having wife problems so I am going to let things cool down for a few weeks before I bring up the subject again. thanks again for all the input and advice.

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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby DARIVS ARCHITECTVS » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:11 am

ajmdreammg42 wrote:I sure wasn't expecting a huge responce like this thanks for all the advice guys

Darivs Architectvs
After looking at your rank and post count it seems like I am geting advice from the obi-won-konobe of the mg42 world. 1) I have'nt really had a chance to sit down and study what exactly is the problems with this gun, but that is a very good suggestion. 2) I have a full german kit allready and 5 yugo kits with some german parts in them. I am building several MG42 semi's and have 3 full lenght BRP receivers and a nice 3 saw cut receiver and another that will be about a 5 cut. I have studied the semi's a little but I really need to get my hands on a functional gun and spend a day with it and reading the manual with it. TIME is my worst enemy , I have very little of it I can afford. good luck with your MP44.


On the gun, use THE Force, but not force. You'll break things.
On the wife use the Jedi Mind Trick. It's your only hope.

On affording to buy and transfer the MG-42, PATIENCE, young apprentice! You're dealing with having to work a budget and then GOVERNMENT.
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby ajmdreammg42 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:16 am

Image

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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby ajmdreammg42 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:20 am

YES,
Finally got a picture posted , had to shrink it down. Its my first belt fed. A matching semi # dfb 41 Mg34 with a matching 41 dated tripod. even had TNW stamp the receiver with the same numbers and had extra (birdies) put on it. still working out the bugs in it when I get time

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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby ajmdreammg42 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:40 pm

Update,
Went over my friends house with the MG42 and took it apart. The bolt 90 % of the time will not stay back, the bolt lugs on the bottom looked ok (Is a parked bolt marked AR a rare bolt ? ) I believe the trigger assy bolt catch is worn, its kind off worn at the top and maybe the spring is weak. The top cover will not close correctly most of the time with the bolt forward or back, even when I make sure the top cover rail is aligned with the button on top of the bolt, it gets a spongy feeling when you try to close it even when you have the bolt back. There are no cracks in the receiver/rails shroud etc and it is in better shape than I thought, mostly the blueing is rubbed off the rachet plate and a few scratches & wear marks on the receiver. He does not clean it very well, and I took the booster assy apart and it had about atleast a 1/8 th inch of crude inside it. corrosive ammo is taking its toll on the barrel. I think I will offer to have a "GI" party and see he be willing to let me come over and clean the MG42 and the rest of his collection. He showed me alot of other guns he has besides the MG42, MP40, MP5 . Anybody know what A browning high power with tangent sights, shoulder stock and waffenamt marked worth ? I believe its all matching also, I really liked it, its really in nice shape even with a inch of dust on it. Still have not decided on a price on it athough I did show him adds from gunbroker, shotguns news, gun list, and pointed out that these have been for sale a while and they are not selling, I am still hopeing for something under 20k. Wife still gets pissed about the thought of taking out a home equity loan to get this even though we have a 100k + of equaty in our house, any thoughts/advice to what to say ? Allready pointed out that when I bought her a new car in 2000 for 20K its worth nothing now, but the gun for 20k and in 10 years I think it be worth 40k. Roses and the normal female bribe crap will not work on this one, how do you explain financial logical sense to a female ?

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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby JBaum » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:00 pm

She thinks your risking the house for a gun, and that she is your mother and has the authority to tell you what's bad. There is no reasoning with that. If she works, she can buy her own toys, and you can buy yours. If she doesn't work, she doesn't get to tell you what not to buy.

If the house is paid for, nobody is calling asking for their money, and there is food in the refrigerator, why else in the world would you still be working if it wasn't to buy toys? That's my story and I'm sticking to it. BTW, I got the home equity loan just so I could buy a 42. It's paid for, and worth three times the purchase price.

My wife tells me I work hard and need toys to make it worth while. I got rid of the first wife who had a completely different attitude. I never regretted it.
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby Bil » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:03 pm

What he said!!! :D ---bil
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Re: might be buying a FA MG42 need advice

Postby drooling idiot » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:01 pm

ajmdreammg42 wrote: how do you explain financial logical sense to a female ?

ImageImageImageImageImage

You figure that part of the problem out, write down the instructions and sell it to the rest of mankind and you'll have all the cash you need.

good luck though I think its going to come down to "I'm getting myself this toy whether you like it or not".
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