I tend to keep things a low key...I found if I brag about something, someone always seems to have something bigger and better! Some of being low key is you mention to non-gun people you shoot or hunt...they think you are a crazy person, etc.
What you say is part of what concerns me. When the 53 shows up and I go to the FFL dealer to pick it up...I hope I dont create a scene with it...and if there are others around to ask to deal wiuth the transfer in the back room, etc.
...but yeah, the 53 will cause some extra attention I dont need...
loose lips sink ships!
thanks for your comments
No problem, Noon. My FFL kept my M53 in the crate and used the paperwork to get the information to do the transfer to me. He said if there was any shipping damage to bring it in right away and he would vouch for it not being my fault as the crate was delivered in perfect order - crate wasn't busted; cracked; etc. That avoided all the "lookie see" and "ohs and aws" people who would have been bound to wanna hold it if he/we took it outta the crate at the store. Besides, it has over a dozen screws holding the crate together and it woulda been a bitch to put them all back in before sticking it in my truck bed on the drive back to my house.
One thing you need to check for certain: MY M53 did NOT come with the bipod in the crate. I was reassured by the people I bought it from that, although they never opened that particular M53 crate, that the rifle came with a bipod. I was pissed when it wasn't in there and the seller has been NO help getting me one. I emailed Wiselite and a guy there emailed me back and told me the bipod was an issue with Century - not them. I assume Wiselite builds the guns and Century puts the bipods on them? Anyway, I called Century and they said this had happened a few times before and promised me one asap. That was 3 months ago and NO bipod still from Century. I ended up buying a used bipod from a great guy here on the forum after looking all over the net for one. The average price for an M53/MG42 bipod was around $100-$150 on GB. Didn't wanna go that route, but it would've been a bitch this spring to take her out shoot this heavy pig from the shoulder - also not interested in placing my hand anywhere near a hot barrel. You may wanna confirm that you're bipod was actually in the crate - just a precaution.
I once lived in a house that the stairs going to the basement were between three block walls and there was a landing at the bottom. The upper section of the stairs were hinged at the top and would lift up. Not light, but with the carpeting there wasn't a way to see that it moved. Out of sight, out of mind. As stated before if they want it bad enought, they can get it. I have several cheap safes that are better then nothing at all. Get what you can afford.
Going to bring up another old tread and hope that it makes a few folks think once or twice. Myself well at work the heavy safe weights in at about 4,000 pounds and they go down to about 200 pounds. Electric keypad,,, whats that. We go from special keys with 5 digit dials to just 3 digit dials. At home well I keep everything at work,,,, right..... Well if someone in the neighborhood asks what I do for a living I tell them sales, then ask if they have talked to anyone about the medical insurance or death insurance lately. Normally they leave things alone after that. Well I am in sales just coin and stamp and gun sales..... As far as safes at home go,,, well have you talked to anyone about your medical insurance lately?????? Lets see good alarm system, dog, well built house, ?safe, closed lips, that sounds about right for at home..... Also the best safe is the one no one knows about..... I love to see a glass front wooden box display case with a key lock on the side of it...... LOL.... I remember how just walking the dog and talking with people how I learned that 1 couple had 1 or 2 pistols, not to worry they kept them up high in the closet so the kids could not reach them. Another couple was telling me about how they had his and hers pistols,,, No I had just met these folks they asked me and I said that I'm the type of guy that calls 911, I believe in that,,, of course I also want 911 to know that I'm in fear of my life just before I might have to take care of the problem. Also I asked a friend of mine on time how come he did not have a Tan safe (good safe) at home to store things, he stated that if someone got in and held a gun to his kids or wife's head nothing else mattered he was going to open the safe. He like myself believe in keeping a very low profile......
If peace of mind of mind is desired, then the baseline answer for residential storage is a TL-15/TL-30 rated SAFE, note capital letters in "SAFE" there. This is because ONLY a TL-15/30 rated product is a real "SAFE" according to UL Labs; ALL other storage devices are classed as merely "residential security cabinets". ALL OTHERS. ALL of them, period.
Best bit of advice to give you- Forget about the material/construction specs of the DOOR. Although the doors, and attendant locks, plate thickness, number of dead bolts, re-locking devices, anti-drill glass rods, ball bearing plates and trips, etc., all sound impressive and make for great advertising......FORGET about it. The simple truth is that if anyone who is remotely competent and skilled in what is known as "adverse entry" procedures is interested in getting inside.....they will simply by-pass the entire door area and immediately attack the weakest structural areas, the side plates, corner joints, back or top plates.
Unless you are talking about a TL-rated safe, the most important thing you can do to prevent quick and easy entry (Note I said "quick and easy" entry, there is NO false belief here that anyone even remotely skilled WILL NOT gain entry to ANY residential security cabinet eventually, and likely, within less than a minute if they are skilled and brought the right tools) is to force the attack to occur at the most unpleasant area for attempted forced entry, that being the door again. You need to present the "safe" with ONLY the door front accessible to gain the best protection. This is best obtained by in-letting a tight-fitting opening for it to fit into in solid concrete wall, i.e., basement or foundation wall etc.,. such that there is no more than a 1/4" of free space presented between the steel "safe" exterior walls and the outside structural concrete. You can also do this by welding a series of 1/4"-1/2" steel plates over, above, and around the actual "safe" to form a welded box. Try and keep only the front door presented.
Not to get into too many details, but with a simple portable plasma cutter either the sides, top, or back can be cut and peeled open in about 30-45secs. There is another portable tool that is basically a small hydraulic ram with a hardened piercing point that can placed along any corner joint and with a few easy strokes will pop the joint and then peel down the seam from which you can then just peel down the plate, again maybe 60 secs to do.
Both of these simple attacks can be readily thwarted by preventing access to the weak side, top, or back plates as described above by placing them too close to a secondary structure to allow access for plasma torches, etc. Doing this at least puts the best protection that any given "safe" has to offer, the front door and its extra security measures, as the only available point of access, for which all the normal extra security mechanisms work at least well enough to DELAY entry.....and in the final analysis, TIME is your best bet as most B&E people won't hang around if they aren't able to make rapid progress. This is all also figuring you are tied in with some form of silent alarm system that combined with the delaying element you have forced upon the attackers, will give LE the time to respond on an active roll out call.
If you have an alarm system, make SURE you have an independent cellular dialer, and NOT JUST a land line connection. Multiple, redundant systems are best, land-line+cellular, etc. The FIRST thing a skilled person will do is defeat BOTH visible power and communication connections.....if you travel, they will mark your home, cut connections and come back when the back-up power is drained....this is a whole long involved topic in itself, alarm strategies.
The better discussion beyond the single "safe" idea is how well does your residence present multiple, inter-layered aspects of both active protection (alarms, safes, etc.) and DISCOURAGEMENT like bright outdoor lighting, motion sensors, visible deterrents like security monitoring company signs, BOTH outside and INSIDE blare alarms horns, etc.,etc. Often the simple things combined enough to make your house look like a higher risk entry job is what will dissuade someone from trying.
And the MOST IMPORTANT thing of all- DO NOT advertise that you may have something of interest in there to begin with! Trust me, if professional/skilled folks are involved, you are screwed no matter what, so don't provide the motivation for them to come looking, and don't risk an active home invasion scenario as most people who come looking for guns will not hesitate to put you down in the process.
Anyway....some basic things to think over....
-TomH
Good advice if you have any worry about being hit by a pro. But even if you can't swing that, don't let it stop you from getting any safe to start with-- I know of two places burgled over the past few years and both times they stole a ton of crap but never even touched the safe(s).
On the U.L. TL-15 or TL-30 don't stop there go for the TL-30-6 Which means for someone with the prints and all of the tools, it will take 30 minutes from when the stop watch is started before entry. Yes, in order to get these ratings the U.L. labs get a safe the blueprints and the tools ready, and the blue prints for that safe studied then with the drill bit / torch ready and about 1/4 away the stop watch is started. Now the important part of the TL30-6 is the 6 means all 6 sides which is not the same as the TL-30 door only. back and sides are not the same. In talk with those in the trade if it has a TL-XX rating of any nature then take the time in minutes say 15 and times that by 6 to 12 for the normal bad guy. The pro's will only take about 2 times the amount. Most will not be able to get in. A lot of the better safes have glass re-locker systems which means a set of about 4 to 6 bolt lockers that are always under spring pressure held in place by a glass plate. Of course this means to the owner about $1,500 to have the safe opened if a failed attack happens. Of course the better thing is that if no one knows that the safe and security system are in place and you keep a low profile. As far as cell phone back up that's a great idea, however most of the top bad guys are carrying cell phone signal blockers with them. As far as that goes; 1st standard lines, then cell phone back-up, then a hidden set of back up ground wires. On the security system have 2, one up front a simple system with a hidden system that's the main system. They take out the 1st system while the 2nd one is getting the police moving. Same to be said about video systems one up front for them and then the hidden back up system for you. As stated Time Time Time the more it takes them the less they will want it. Also make sure that you have good battery back up and hopefully a second source of back up ac power.
Adding in review as I look I can see the hinges on 2 of my safes and both of them have TL-15 plus ratings. Most of the safes that have hinges on the outside have ridged seams or large bolts that will keep the hinge side in place in case the hinges are attacked. By the way the above are nice basic notes. There are still a few more things that can be done. Don't bother to ask as I still need a few more things to have in place.
Now lets review,,, do you need any medical insurance????
The bad new is that when we were posting this over the last two days a large group of parts kits were stolen and posted about... PLEASE THINK ABOUT THIS and do the best that you can.
....most will gag on the prices though....These are what I recommend to people who "have the need". As John points out above, if you do have that expensive collection......keeping it in a safe that costs only as much, comparatively speaking as only one gun in value terms, is not really that much of a compromise in my mind.
We use Brown security lockers in our local armory for retaining all the Agency patrol weapons when they are not being issued, and Brown cabinets seem to be pretty common in LE storage circles from what I see. There are a lot of Community Policing Presence/Auxiliary Stations now, that are not always manned around here, and they will usually retain a few patrol weapons in these offices in Brown cabinets with the normal alarming systems. Brown seems to enjoy a really solid professional reputation, though pricey.
I like Tann's myself. Just bought and sold a Meilink T-20, anyone want to help drop off a 1,800 pound safe???? I understand.... An fyi small safe move think roller bars or golf balls.
Really the Brown prices seem in line.. Type in Tann Safes and you will find a lot of Tann safes being offered. Normally you can find used Tann's in the $3,000 to $5,000 dollar area. Of course when you go to change out the main key it costs around $400 for 2 keys.. Getting the comb changed is not as bad.
Also I did ask and my lawyer put down his foot and said No claymores in the attic. Well what he does not know will not hurt him..... Had a safe that had several glass tubes in it.... Right in the normal drill in area.... The glass tubes were from a different time period when lawyers did not say No so much. Was never sure what was in them, gas: nerve, or tear or real special stuff....
Fun Fun Fun
Actually,I have a safe,not a real good one,more of a lockable storage bin,that is built into the house.The chimney is on top of it! 5 locks,3 internal,2 padlocks.I keep my dummy guns and some other stuff in there. Being a builder, (among other things) I have made places where they can't be found without tearing out the walls,floors,and ceilings. My last house I built had wainscott around the living room,and 2 built in bookshelves.Under the bookshelves,the wainscott slid up and out,with storage within an extra thick wall. There was a fake outlet in one,just plug in something,the other had a threaded knot,just slop in a screw for a handle. At the top of the stairs was another bookshelf,take out the books on the bottom shelf,and it lifted up to reveal where I kept some cheap stuff. Beneath that was another spot with some ammo,etc. But if you pulled on the electric wire that passed through,a tray with the good stuff slid over from the front of the house. All sort of fun,not good for a fire,but not good odds to lose everything. The neighbors kept a watch on the house,I told them that if anyone messed with my stuff,I was going to blame them. They kept all their crackhead friends away. I also have so much crap just built up that I can't even find it,burglars would need weeks!
Sorry to see the post where the guy here lost all of his stuff,I wish him the best of luck! ---bil
"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert
They broke into someones house that I knew. They were smart, took a look around and left.... Then they came back a 2nd time this time however they were ready with the bags shoves and a wheel barrow to help them haul things away. They got him good on the 2nd trip....
---bil