Marstar receivers

[Michael J]

First of all, wanted to say "Hi", im new to this board. I originally signed up on the 1919a4 board, as i thought i'd try building one of those, but as it turned out, my first parts kit ended up being a M53 (sold by a 1919a4 member, "Rory" if any of you are familiar with board members). Great guy, if any of you have ever purchased from him!
Unfortunately for me, I could never ever (even dream) of owning a full-auto mg42 here in canada, but i can always make due with a semi (and cheap) m53 .

So my questions are:
1) For $375, would a stripped MG42 receiver from Marstar be a good deal?
2) Marstar is selling whole receivers, that have yet to be cut... So another question is (that i just emailed marstar also), do you think they would have to cut it, or would they ship it to some BATF-qualified location for them to do it, and then to me?
3) Do you think my highschool machine/welding shop would mind me doing the semi mods, and rewelding the receiver there .

Glad to meet all of you! I couldn't think of a better place to find information from, based on the stickies you have posted and your faq you have put together.

[PvtJoker]

It'd be a great idea. However, I have NO idea what Canada's laws are regarding building semi-autos, or about age limits on building there, if any. I also think it might not be a really smart idea to take your gun to shop class at your high school. My other question is, why would the BATF concerns apply if you are in Canada? That is a US Federal agency, and last time I checked, we have yet to get around to invading and conquering Canada... YET. Now, IF you are a US citizen living in Canada, I think that the regs up there are FAR stricter about foreign nationals owning weapons of ANY kind, but again you would have to check with the Canadian authorities on that one. And if you are in the US, then you would have to get not only ATF approval, but also a US Customs Form 6 approval to import the Marstar receiver, which is about as likely as having delivered across the border on one of Barak Obama's unicorns. That might not stop Marstar from SELLING it to you, but once you take possession, you may find yourself in violation of a number of different felonies. Tread VERY lightly here. It is far better to just save up the bucks and buy one here. But I still wouldn't build it- or for that matter, take it- ANYWERE NEAR a school. Otherwise you may be trying to use the machine shop in the prison system.

[Bil]

Which,BTW,are very well equiped,or so I hear.And as for the US invading Canada,we already did that a long time ago-1812 I think.They got mad and burned Washington .Perhaps it is time to do it again.MichaelJ-welcome to the site,it would help if you clarify your status and country -as Joker says,rules are diferant from place to place. ---bil

[www.Prussia.us]

This is a perennial issue and when I was trying to obtain on Mg receiver, I had the very same question regarding Marstar. Here is the skinny.

As for Canada, if you are a Canadian citizen you first better contact the appropriate Ministry regarding gun ownership as PvtJoker aptly pointed out. Last I knew Canada allowed the ownership of an MG receiver if they were cut in 5 specific places. Marstar will do the cuts, and if you are Canadian talk with them, they know the laws, I have found them VERY helpful and courteous.

As for importing them down into the US, unless you have an importer’s license, here is the gray area: a receiver (non-automatic) would require a BATF Form 6, but a de-milled receiver is no longer a receiver-merely gun parts. Gun parts should not need a Form 6; therefore in theory these de-milled pieces, which Marstar will turn your receiver into free of charge, should not need a Form 6 to ship into the US. HOWEVER, US Customs will surly want to inspect a de-milled receiver to make sure it comports to the BATF de-milling standards…..

So back to the question, does one need a Form 6, and if not what Form? I went round and round with the BATF on this one, basically they never thought that far ahead when writing the regulations, and now they just want to intimidate you into backing off. While you do not need to possess an Importer’s License to import gun parts, receivers are what one could call in interest intensive area and when they start asking you: Why you want it?; Are you going to violate the NFA?; Are you a licensed manufacturer (which you do not need to be)?, etc.,it is easy to get intimidated???

Finally, if I were an ’07, with an approved semi design, then I would be able to present the BATF with a cogent argument for importation and assembly. I am hoping Pirate’s new business can eventually do this with Marstar’s Mg34 receivers.

[Michael J]

Sorry for lack of information, Canadian citizen yes, living in canada. I have never lived in the US, nor am i a citizen. As for the laws of building, its legal (semi auto of course). Marstar sells semi-auto mg's also, they are considered "non-restricted" here (same classification of a simple hunting rifle).
Age, well technically you must be legal age to own the firearm, currently i keep my rifle in my mothers name. So after it is finished being built, all that has to be done is have it registered in my mothers name. As for batf concerns, i just didn't know what you call them here in canada. We have some sort of firearms center here, cant think of it off the top of my head.
5 cuts are required, i just wasnt sure where they would be cut (marstar, 3rd party location, etc?). I think marstar cutting the receiver themself would be the best bet, or having it shipped to some goverment-licensed firearm center to be demilled there.

I ordered my M53 parts kit from the the united states, that went okay. I received the partial receiver without a problem, i cannot see the issue of a 5 cut receiver from marstar.

My main concern was, what are the prices of these receivers, and would it be cheaper for me to purchase it from the board, or another american seller?

As for the school, i just want to clarify i was joking, it would be pretty dumb to do that! I have my trusty dremel handheld at home . I'll just have to bum a welding machine off of my friend.

[Bil]

I would find out how much Marstar charges for the demilled receiver.Prices up there are much diferant than here because you can get stuff we can't,and vice versa,I know the 34 receivers are cheaper up there,but we can't have them.Sort of like how much is oil in Arabia-not much,but it costs more here.On the other hand,water is mostly free here.So get your Canadian price first so we can have something to compare to.Also brush up on any laws about what you can build up there-it is a totally diferant ballgame .Good luck! ---bil

[Michael J]

If i can figure out the laws on the demill receivers, if u don't mind a 5-cut, maybe i can pass on the savings. I'm not sure about your laws on receiving the receiver parts, but im sure i can mail them. no promises, but maybe in the future.

-michael

[ScottD]

Michael J, where in Canada are you? Maybe You can buy me a MG34 receiver and I can meet you one day at the border and buy it from you! WHo cares about all these messy little laws! kidding, of course.

Now, as far as cost.....the average 4 cut receiver in the US goes for anywhere from 700-900 bucks, depending on condition and maker. If you can do better from Marstar, Id jump on it. SO you got your kit from Rory? Well at least the bastatge is actually selling something rather than buying EVERY single item offered for sale on 1919a4.com!! He's a good guy, cant go wrong with him.

Welcome aboard. Have fun with your build. Hate to tell ya, but the 1919 is a MUCH easier build!

[Michael J]

Michael J, where in Canada are you? Maybe You can buy me a MG34 receiver and I can meet you one day at the border and buy it from you! WHo cares about all these messy little laws! kidding, of course.

Now, as far as cost.....the average 4 cut receiver in the US goes for anywhere from 700-900 bucks, depending on condition and maker. If you can do better from Marstar, Id jump on it. SO you got your kit from Rory? Well at least the bastatge is actually selling something rather than buying EVERY single item offered for sale on 1919a4.com!! He's a good guy, cant go wrong with him.

Welcome aboard. Have fun with your build. Hate to tell ya, but the 1919 is a MUCH easier build!

haha, yeah, i figured the 1919 would be easier after i paid for the m53! BTW i do live in British Columbia, fairly close to the border of your Washington state. As for messy laws, i don't think theres anything wrong with me sending you receiver parts. Unless you know of any laws that would not allow a receiver, exceeding your BATF standards in cuts (we req. 5), to be sent to the united states. I can always email marstar or phone them, on how much their mg34 receivers go for.

As for my MG42 receiver, stripped, 5 cut, would cost me $375. 00 CAD. i would guess even less for the USD? I suppose it has lost some value due to having 5 cuts, and i havn't a clue on condition (or quality of cuts). I do know that Marstar is TNW's primary supplier, and the supplier (according to marstar) of much of your "parts kit" market. So if they are supplying them with kits, they can't be all too bad?

Maybe i can request careful cuts! So that i avoid destroying barrel bushing (like on my yugo), the front sight area, and any other places that would be complicated to re-fabricate. I'm not sure the difference it makes, but hopefully fresh cuts means better equipment, hopefully meaning i don't get a melted, droopy pile of crap.

[Michael J]

Well i didn't want to waste a new thread on this, so i will sort of hijack my old thread...

After purchasing the receiver from marstar (unless something otherwise happens), i plan to use this tutorial: http://www.salt6.com/pirates%20build.htm. One of the thing's i would like to know is, This isn't obsolete is it? I don't have the cash for one of these Wiselite or BRP semi receivers, and i'd prefer doing some of the work myself (just to brag to the guys at my local gunclub).

I believe the only parts i'll need to buy (and probably have the work done on them too) would be pirates v2.0 mods. I planned on taking the bolt, and any other SMALL internal parts that need work to my machine class at school (when school starts) to work on (whole gun = stupid idea, but the bolt i doubt anyone would even recognize).

From what i hear, the FAL fcg is the better one? One small question is, what do i put in the fcg? On pirates website, it shows the fcg, but i havn't a clue as to what to put into it. Is it the "rest of the FAL parts" he supplies for $50. 00 that goes in there?

Anyways i can tackle any of these issues as they come along, and just wanted to know if i'm heading in the right direction, or if i'm following some obsolete method, and will simply ruin my parts!

Thanks again for the help and assistance!
- Michael

[Sledge303]

As for my MG42 receiver, stripped, 5 cut, would cost me $375. 00 CAD. i would guess even less for the USD? I suppose it has lost some value due to having 5 cuts, and i havn't a clue on condition (or quality of cuts). I do know that Marstar is TNW's primary supplier, and the supplier (according to marstar) of much of your "parts kit" market. So if they are supplying them with kits, they can't be all too bad?

Since TNW is a licensed importer and is already buying direct/importing thru Marstar has anyone contacted TNW about de-milled MG34 receivers? They don't use them when they manufacture the semi-auto MG34 that they offer. Coming thru them they would meet BATFE FTB standards and would have cleared US Customs already.
Also, earlier in the thread "www.prussia.us" mentions having an approved design for an 07 FFL to manufacture a semi-auto MG34 using a re-welded original MG34 receiver. Where is that letter posted, or is it not public?

Sledge

[Bil]

Last I knew,TNW was keeping the entire receiver in one piece in a special area,not sure what the term for it is,but it is like it isn't in this country,yet it is.They are saving them for some future use.I read this in an interview with one of the guys there,it may have been in SGN.I am going out of town,but will look it up when I return. ---bil

[www.Prussia.us]

“BIL” I did not see the SGN article but it was briefly covered here in a thread earlier and in these Free Trade Zones there are also reputed to be large stores of barrels being held “on site” despite the 2005 barrel ban, so receiver storage would not be surprising.

If TNW indeed has these receivers they likely will not part them. TNW, who wants to sell you their new incomplete $2K receiver ($1899.99), or their full Mg34 for $3500-$3999, would not likely be willing to sell builders the cut receiver pieces and undermine their own potential business.

If I had my druthers I would be boycott TNW all together, they should be treated as a pariah by gun builders for hording Mg34 parts, keeping them from us so that they can sell their albeit beautiful Mg34 semis.

It was rumored buy another big manufacturer that TNW was going to run out of Mg34 kits, but I have no proof of that. I would be curious how many of their Mg34s are being moved monthly????

[FKpt.Fritz]

maby we can start selling kits to them at stupidly high prices.

[Sledge303]

Last I knew,TNW was keeping the entire receiver in one piece in a special area,not sure what the term for it is,but it is like it isn't in this country,yet it is.They are saving them for some future use.I read this in an interview with one of the guys there,it may have been in SGN.I am going out of town,but will look it up when I return. ---bil

Bil,
That "Special area" is known as a "bonded warehouse"
Items "in bond" are physically in the USA, but legally are not.
The items/firearms have not passed thru customs.
No duty has been paid.
You can have complete, functional MG's, barrels, whatever in bond.
There are rules, no work can be performed on firearms in bond.
Items cannot remain in bond forever.
Guns can be de-milled in bond and the parts imported (with the appropriate paperwork) and duty is paid at that time.
Receivers can come thru if they are "sporting arms".
De-milled receiver pieces can come thru if they meet the BATFE FTB criteria.
They must be cut per the drawings and in a manner that removes all "value" as a receiver. If a receiver is cut, but not as described in the guidance, legally it is still an MG. We have all experienced this with the recalls of CZ-24/26 SMG kits, the IO PPSh-41 kits, the Chilean FAL kits, and the MKS M14 receivers.

It would be worthwhile to approach TNW about the MG34 receivers. However, it won't be worth their effort unless the quantity is sufficiently high. It is a big deal to summon US Customs to the Bond area to go thru the release process. We may also discover they are leaving the receivers out of the country and just buying/importing the MG34 part sets. In that case they may be willing to import them under contract, and are paid for their work.

Key here is someone has to be willing to devote time/money to the effort. It would take a while for this to come together, so don't expect a fast turn around on the investment.

Sledge

[Bil]

Sledge-thank you-I could not remember the term used,but I was aware of the goings on and rules of those magic places-I believe there is one in my neighborhood! ---bil

[Michael J]

A little off topic but i emailed Marstar this question, as their receivers are 100% for the mg42 (stripped though)...

Me: As the receivers are not cut, how are they to be sold for civilian use?
Marstar representative "John": They can be sold to anyone with the proper paperwork.


Huh? Maybe i've been watching your american laws for too long, and really our canadian ones are out of whack different? I'm super confused by this statement, i think i will phone them in the next couple days, unfortunately i'm working during their business hours today. I hope that they aren't demilling it in some other unrepairable method though!

[Michael J]

Ok, i think i'm blind, cant see the edit button ...

Anyways this thought just occurred to me: In order for me to legally build a semi "mg42/m53" from this receiver i must purchase, as i read somewhere, we are building guns from "scrap metal". So essentially, if marstar won't, i have to make the receiver into scrap metal.

What i was thinking, as there would be no authorities intercepting, in between the process of my "demill", for what reasons would i not just give myself an old fashioned 3 piece saw cut? I'd just take a picture of it, any questions arise, it was demilled, a long time ago deemed as scrap metal. Then do the semi modifications, and give it an "obvious" re weld. Any questions arise from that, the gun was built from legally deemed scrap metal.

Moral, maybe not... but really, how can they tell when it was demilled? I mean it could have been in the family for generations, or i could have found it at a local gun show.

Or i'm just an idiot, and could just ask marstar to demill it... *sigh*

[Bil]

I wouldn't even try to fool around-in theory it sounds easy-in theory a lot of stuff sounds good.For one thing,there are serial numbers on these things.For another,selling to anyone 'with the right paperwork' may not include you-how do you get the paperwork if you don't know what you need/ Here,we can buy anything if we have the right paper-$$$.I think you may spend more time and money doing it the hard way-but call them and find out-it may turn out to be easier.Let us know how you make out. ---bil

[www.Prussia.us]

First Michael J, I strongly encourage you to have a friend you can trust call your appropriate governmental ministry that promulgates gun laws and regulations and find out the exact laws on possession and construction/manufacture of a firearm. Get briefed by this friend, then have a chat with John at Marstar. He is an affable cat, I have called upon him from time to time and he always is a good sport.

From the English common law, occasionally ignorance of the law is an actual defense for SOME violations, others you are strictly liable for i.e., no affirmative defense, i.e., you are screwed. Gun regulations in the US are enforced with a Draconian fervor, so from your friends down here you can expect absolute adherence to the law and an urging to not run afoul of it.

Keep us posted, and good luck with your quest.

Hey “Bil” how far are you from the Century Arms warehouse in VT, is that near a Free Trade Zone?