Pricing of semi MG/M53 now in 2017?

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Re: Pricing of semi MG/M53 now in 2017?

Postby hakentt » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:27 am

jbaum wrote:The recoil spring Is supposed to reach from the rear of the receiver to the front edge of the feed tray, according to the manual. They can be longer, that is the shortest it's supposed to be.


Well now you know why people are having hard time with MG42, information is so inconsistent and vague.

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Re: Pricing of semi MG/M53 now in 2017?

Postby Der Alder » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:02 pm

hakentt wrote:
jbaum wrote:The recoil spring Is supposed to reach from the rear of the receiver to the front edge of the feed tray, according to the manual.


It does not make any sense. Springs measure around 16 to 17 inches and from rear of the receiver to the front feed tray is about 14.5 inches.
Give me exact measurements of your MG42 and your spring, I want to compare those measurements to my Yugo, metric please.


Spring lengths once used will vary widely depending on how much set they have taken. I have dozens of Yugo kit springs and German MG3 springs and none are exactly the same length...they may have been when new, but not after decades of set and use.

The longest spring I have is brand new German MG3 springs...I don't have a new Yugo R/C spring, but they may have been similar when new as well. That's like you could pull coil strut springs off the same model of car, but with different age and mileage their lengths will vary as well.

I also have about 6 Yugo booster nozzles ranging from 10mm, 11mm, 11.5 (most common),12mm 13mm and 14mm. Sizes (gas) can be used to tune the gun for ammo variances, but in the field I assume varied sizes were for temps (freezing) tightness of gun, dirt, etc.

My advice for semi builders is to simply run as much spring as you can without it bottoming on itself when fully retracted.

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Re: Pricing of semi MG/M53 now in 2017?

Postby hakentt » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:18 pm

Der Alder wrote:I also have about 6 Yugo booster nozzles ranging from 10mm, 11mm, 11.5 (most common),12mm 13mm and 14mm. Sizes (gas) can be used to tune the gun for ammo variances, but in the field I assume varied sizes were for temps (freezing) tightness of gun, dirt, etc.


Yugo gunner's 256 page field manual does not say anything about different size nozzles, on troubleshooting page it does not say anything about changing different part in difficult condition, this further proved my point when you have to go on a wild goose chase to get the weapon to run right.

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Re: Pricing of semi MG/M53 now in 2017?

Postby Der Alder » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:14 am

I'm only stating what nozzles I've got in the 1/2 dozen or so Yugo kits I've bought over the years, plus many nozzles and parts I've bought separately.

All pictured are unaltered (not drilled). All I believe to be Yugo. Some nozzles were electro-penciled marked as such, some unmarked. I bought some from Numrich back when you could buy specific the sizes they had on hand.

I've since checked them with my calipers and paint-markered them so I can see them better in my tuning kit.

The nozzle is the gas regulator in this platform. Some guns you can adjust the gas with the turn of a knob, in this gun it can only be adjusted by changing the nozzle via its orifice size.

I assume the Germans having better tolerances and more consistent ammo and more disciplined crews (cleaning) had less of need for gas adjustments (nozzle sizes) than the Yugo's.

Seems the most common Yugo nozzle I've encountered has been 11.5mm....but they can vary. I suppose the larger ones are either for ROF or even well worn loose guns...not sure?

Thats like post war West German MG1/3's using consistent NATO spec ammo, only used one 'nozzle' which was a combined barrel bearing/flash hider combo,,,so far as I know they only used one size on them (not counting training ammo). But if anyone has varying German sizes I'd like to hear about them.

Seems to me I read here some of the MG1 nozzles went as small as 9-9.5mm...not sure if that was for training ammo though...I should mention too that the post war Germans and allies (like Italy) used heavier bolt carriers to adjust their ROF. So again maybe the Yugo's used gas for this purpose being that I've never seen a non standard Yugo B/C...again all just theory on my part, but it makes sense.

Image

The best rule of thumb IMO is to simply run the largest (least amount of gas) nozzle your gun needs to make it run reliably. No sense in beating the gun the death. But...our lives do not depend on its function, so I can see where some crews in poor conditions might not care about that as much as reliability.

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Re: Pricing of semi MG/M53 now in 2017?

Postby hakentt » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:55 am

Der Alder wrote:I'm only stating what nozzles I've got in the 1/2 dozen or so Yugo kits I've bought over the years, plus many nozzles and parts I've bought separately.
.


thanks for the information. Can you post a photo of your Yugo springs. I want to count the coils. Have you seen different size barrel bushings for Yugo? On mine there is a 47 stamping, indicating 47mm,

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Re: Pricing of semi MG/M53 now in 2017?

Postby Der Alder » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:08 pm

Image

Here is a pic of some of my springs. Working form *Right* to Left...The last 3 on the right are German post war MG3 springs with the last one being a new MG3 spring...you can see how much set they take over time which I mentioned in my other post (note how much longer the new unused MG3 spring is).

The 2 before them are used Yugo uncut springs. You can tell the difference if you look at them close as the Yugo springs have a gold/brass tint and are brazed on the ends, where the MG3 German springs are more of a silver color with no brazing....thought that was worth noting for those interested as an easy well to tell them apart.

Next to them are 3 BRP single wire semi auto springs.

The 4 next to those are a cut down mix of MG3 and Yugo springs cut to varying lengths...I use these in my tuning kit, much like the varied sizes of gas nozzles to fine to each gun dependent on tightness of the gun, ammo, etc.

That said, assuming you are talking semi modified springs...rather than going by length or number of coils as you can see will vary depending on the spring, again as I mentioned earlier in another post I would start with say 22-23 coils which will be way to much for a semi...but then cut a 1/2 coil off at a time till you get the *maximum spring your gun can run* with that spring..

I do this by placing the uncut end of the spring into the B/C notch, give it a circular twist to 'seat it', install your buffer, then pull the charging handle back, watching carefully as the spring compresses. You want the buffer to carry the load of the full recoil...you do not want the spring to bottom onto itself, thus defeating the buffer.

Having to weak a spring or not enough will lead to rounds not stripping fully or the action absorbing most of the energy leaving little left to put the bolt in battery, reset the hammer, etc..but a 'one size fits all' # of coils in this type of gun with so many variables is not a good rule of thumb IMO. Sort of like 2 muscle cars running the same engine may need different tuning, carb jetting timing, etc.

These semi's in this platform are running right on the edge of functioning due to the shortened R/C spring, added drag of the hammer, which again is why you need all the spring you can run along with getting the gas right. All this too is assuming the gun is straight, built to proper specs, not binding, has a good recuperator and is running proper spec ammo ...all combined leaves much to go wrong with a used kit which is why so many have trouble building these.

This is why many of us plead with new builders to first study the stickies, read the build threads and buy the German manuals in orders to understand this is not an AR build.

BTW,this last advice is not directed at you Hackentt, but rather some of the newer members, As I'm sure you are aware of of this.


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