WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Anything MG42 related.
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Der Alder
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WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby Der Alder » Thu May 19, 2016 4:37 pm

I thought it would be interesting to post photos and discuss the use of the MG42 on vehicles during WWII.

I'll start off with the fact the MG42 was not used much in tanks due to the barrel change difficulties involved in most mantel mounts. The MG34 was used mostly in tanks, which is probably why its production continued to the end of the war.

Whereas on vehicles when top mount was an option like half-tracks and some tanks this was not an issue and the MG42 was seen being used on a limited bases towards the end of the war. Searching the web I've found several pictures which may of interest.

Here is a Tiger tank in A museum in Germany (Munster) with and MG42 on top:
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I've read where the Jagdpanzer IV used 2 MG42's with it's mantel designed for MG42 use (from what I've gathered). Sometimes they were simply placed on top of the tank on the bipod, but they also had and interesting mount on the rear over the engine for AA use. Here is a mix of photos and some scale models depicting this. This tank was so late in the war and were scarce (like 84 built) and only a few survive that pictures of wartime use or with MG mounts are hard to find.
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Here is a few more:
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^not sure what tank this is..anyone know?

Seems it was used very late war with experimental night vision on some tanks and half tracks:
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I do not recognize this tank..anyone know what it is?
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More detailed scale model pics:
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remote MG42...not sure if this is for vehicle use or trenches:
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If anyone has any related info or pics feel feel to share.

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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby Der Alder » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:18 pm

I have a few more pics I've found of the MG42 in vehicle used during WWII, but is appears there is no interest in the subject here...odd. [diz] Oh well can't blame a guy for trying to jazz things up a bit here... "crickets chirping" :lol:

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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby JBaum » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:30 pm

I wouldn't call 66 page views "no interest", but that's up to you. Maybe nobody else has pictures of the MG42 mounted on vehicles...
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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby JBaum » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:02 am

Not that I didn't enjoy the pictures (really, I did), but:

You know that's a fake MG42 on the #231 tank in the first set of pictures, right? I mean, it's not a real receiver or grip.
Overall it's not a bad looking fake from 20 feet away (OK, 40 feet), but close up, the receiver is smaller than where the stock attaches, and smaller toward the front too. Look at how high the AA sight bracket sits on top of the flat (not recessed on top) receiver. The receiver is flat the whole way to the cam piece. Perhaps it's one of the new style receivers with the glued-in rails, since it doesn't have rivets. The top cover has a hell of a hump in the top middle to make up for the receiver being undersized. The grip looks really cheesy, it doesn't even have safety, which is good because it allows the fake grip panels to be on it. The front sight flip up is missing, and I have to wonder how the support mount goes into the gun from underneath where the barrel extension needs to be.

The drum, however, looks OK, it's just spray painted black instead of being blued, and it's mounted at least an inch below where it should be. I wonder how they got it to stick on the gun with no ears on the feed tray. :lol:

Ah well, it's a museum, and most museums aren't known for authenticity when it comes to military things, other than the Royal Armouries Museum in England. This makes me wonder if a 42 is even correct for this tank. It may have been used because the woodshop said making a fake 34 was too much trouble. I did like the ball mount for a 34 in the front of the tank. I have to wonder about the wisdom of a 34 in front and a 42 on top. One of them may be the result of the restorer's imagination?

The other pics look much better, thanks for that. :D
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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby rodom » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:20 pm

I'm in agreement with John. This seems to be a very interesting subject, especially with the historically impressive photos. Real photos from the second world war aren't easy to come by, and I appreciate DerAlders efforts to post them for the rest of us. And the models shown display great attention to detail. The static display photos are pretty cool too, even if not 100% accurate. Thanks again to DerAlder.

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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby waffendude » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:58 am

Der Alder ---I think they are pretty cool-thanks for posting them
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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby Der Alder » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:36 pm

The Tiger in the pics above is inside Germany's premier tank Museum in Munster. I'm guessing do to their laws there maybe using an original MG42 in open display is difficult? - who knows. Perhaps they save their original MG's and demills for close up plexiglass displays where this one was out in the open and out of sight of most viewers and not behind glass. I would think that for a super rare restoration where millions of dollars were spent they have their reasons for using a display gun?

I'm *guessing* being they restored and finally acquired one of 4? remaining Tigers in the world (I think this one came from France if I'm not mistaking) they had their reasons for using an imitation MG42 in Germany on that Tiger AA mount after going to such great lengths elsewhere to make it correct. It would be interesting to know the real story there though.

At any rate, I thought it was interesting to see a Tiger I with a MG42 AA mount, fake gun or not as evidently the museum did find enough info to justify an MG42 mounted for AA use on its late war Tiger I which was the point of posting it's use...not so much the correctness of the MG itself, rivets, grip used, etc but its documented use on such a vehicle if such was the case. Maybe someone has books on the subject they could share info with?

I'm guessing with allied strafing attacks being so widespread late war, having something to shoot back with at least gave the crew something to do other than bail out. Using something with a ROF like the MG42 made sense I guess. I do know the very late war rare 128mm hunting tiger pictures had a deck mounted AA MG42 and I believe it was the only panzer to have a ball mantel MG42 mount...I'd like to know more about this to be sure.

At least the Munster tank collection in Germany are not rusting away outside like so many rare models in the US. IMO it is so sad to see many rare German WWII tanks and self propelled guns and 88 flaks rusting away sitting outside for 70 years at Aberdeen and around the country. (do a google earth search of Aberdeen).

It is bitter/sweet for me because at least they survived and were not scraped, but sad to see them sitting outside rusting to the point of the tracks being locked up and filled with rain water as was with the super rare Elephant (one of 2 remaining) in the "tank overhaul" video which can be seen on youtube. Aberdeen has King Tiger's, Hunting Tigers and about every Jagdpanther type including the superb V 88 equipped model (last model) and host medium Panzer types made and rare sub variants...all collecting rain water outside for 70 years :( . I'm planning a trip down to Aberdeen this summer hopefully to photograph what I can there. If anyone has pics from there of German armour please feel free to post them here, MG42 or not as I am very interested in seeing them and the current states.

Getting back on topic, pics of MG42's on WWII German vehicles are hard to find due to their limited use on such, which was why I though this would be an interesting thread here. Seems they were used a lot on half-tracks and even those are hard to find in pics. I imagine the night vision stuff was so restricted that not many photos were taken, but I thought the scale modelers who did their research did and excellent job recreating what they looked like from achieved photos and was worth noting. I seem to recall one of the STUG's used the MG42 up top behind a shield, but can not find pics, though I do remember building a model of one as a kid back in the 70's.

Anyhow thanks for the interest...I was starting to think there was none :lol:

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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby JBaum » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:02 pm

Night vision equipment (light amplification) wasn't in use back then. I suspect these were all using infra-red illumination (the big floodlight looking part), which isn't visible to the naked eye, but was viewed through a CRT (early tv tube) for aiming.
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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby fjruple » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:51 am

Der Adler--

I believe much of the Aberdeen vehicle collection has been relocated to Ft. Lee, Virginia.

--fjruple

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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby JBaum » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:32 pm

The law in Germany is that you can have an entire complete receiver with no restrictions. What you can't have is a barrel, unless there are 5 holes drilled in it the diameter of the bore, nor a bolt head, unless the face has been milled/ground off at a 45 degree angle, which means it would never strip/feed a cartridge.

That's why people always want bolts to be sent to Germany. They might find a usable barrel somewhere, but a good bolt head is a very rare item there.
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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby Der Alder » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:56 pm

Heres a pretty good write up on the German WWII NV IR devices...including one pictured with a '42.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/german-inf ... werfer.htm

Off the top of my head I recall reading about the US using similar technology late in the war against the Japanese. I've see pics of an M1 carbine used late in WWII with IR NV.

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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby Der Alder » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:05 pm

fjruple wrote:Der Adler--

I believe much of the Aberdeen vehicle collection has been relocated to Ft. Lee, Virginia.

--fjruple


I'm glad you told me that because I was planning a road trip down there later this summer...I may have to look into this more. Do you know if they can be publicly accessed at Ft Lee?

I mainly want to shoot some detailed photos of each.

I was using google earth and zooming in on what they had sitting on the ground at Aberdeen and going by comments others made on other boards, but those were from a few years ago. Perhaps much has changed. I hoped they restored these super rare surviving examples and placed them indoors where the belong.

Thats like (on a related subject) I enjoy going over the Wright Patterson AFB in Dayton Ohio every few years. If you are an aviation buff, they have a fantastic collection of German WWII aircraft. I hope someday the German tanks above mentioned can be restored preserved in a similar manner under one roof.

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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby www.Prussia.us » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:29 pm

Great thread, great pictures, too bad more of these artifacts were not saved. For instance over 12,000 B17s were produced during WW2, yes many were shot down/damaged, however each state capital should have been given a compliment of US planes and captured Axis equipment for museums.
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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby Embalmer » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:53 pm

love vehicle pics... especially armor of wwii (1 grandfather was armor in wwii for both germany and then US.)
Last edited by Embalmer on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WWII MG42 on vehicle use

Postby Embalmer » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:53 pm

Ah the franken tiger of germany lol (tiger in top photos). made up of various tiger tanks parts, and i think 10% new made steel to make a representational tiger. only 6 complete original tiger I's left in world, and Ft Benning is currently restoring ours.

That oddity tank pic is a captured chaffee looks like

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edit** American light tank M24 Chaffee playing the role of a German tank "Panther" in the 1966 film " Is Paris Burning ? " ( "Paris brûle-t-il?"). The film is dedicated to the liberation of the French capital soznikami in August 1944 by the German occupation .


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