Rewelding but not a receiver??????

[helix60]

Looked through most of the site but couldn't quite find the answer I'm looking for.

How much of a 3 or 4 cut receiver can be rewelded and still not be considered a receiver per ATF?

If you lable the cuts 1,2,3,(4) from rear to front on the receiver pieces. Can cuts 1 and 2 (3cut) or 1,2,4 (4cut) be rewelded and semi mods done, without qualifying as a receiver yet?
Only cut not repaired would be at the camming section.

Regards,
Heli

[Karbinator]

One guy that does complete rcvr weld up work on this board will open the grip slot, install
the bolt block, and send it off to the owner all welded without rails or cam installed.
Considered 80%, or non gun status. So I wonder what status it becomes with at least 1 hack
in it somewhere?

[helix60]

My thought which may be wrong. Is that so long as the camming area is not repaired there is no way that the receiver pieces can accomodate both a bolt and barrel in any combination therefore it cannot discharge a single shot.

No shooty ==== no firearm

Least that's my logic.

Reason is I have a few kits that I had started and stopped prior to repairing the camming areas. Was looking to maybe part with a couple of kits without headaches from BigBrother.
Worst case is I would have to cut them again. :mad:

Besides I think they would be worth more if most of the work was already done.

Regards,
Heli

[striker754]

Doubtful. There is a reason why there is 4 cuts. Write a letter and ask atf.

Just because it cant take a bolt and barrel doesnt mean its not a gun.

I would say no, otherwise they would only cut them in one spot.

[helix60]

Doubtful. There is a reason why there is 4 cuts.

It is common knowledge that IO had them done in 4 cuts to cover their butts. They had
prior trouble or inquests from ATF on other demills. So they went overboard on a lot of them.

The current standard demill for the 42 series is still 3 cut.

[striker754]

same theory applies whether 2 3 4 cut, etc . it is apparent that to be not considered MGs, they must be cut in certain spots. I would assume that the same holds true for semi autos.

[Abominog]

From what I understand, ATF uses an "8 hour rule", that is if it can go from "80%" to firing one round in under 8 hours of work (machining, etc.) then it's not 80%

Now, that just doesn't make sense, because some receivers (STEN) could be made from nothing in under 8 hours.

ATF does specify where (at least some) receivers have to be cut to be destroyed. But a reverse-engineered (rebuilt) receiver cannot be forced to follow that same 4-cut/where-cut idea, since it may not necessarily be able to be "fixed" and fired. Take an FAL reciever for example; if it's cut in three with a torch, and two pieces are subsequently re-welded with the front third remaining free, NOBODY is going to get that thing together, able to accept a bolt & carrier and fire a round in 8 hours. Yeah, you could use bondo and a dremel and get something looking like an FAL receiver, but who's pulling the trigger?

[smoggle]

I remember reading on the ATF site, which is a maze in and of itself, that the mods must be done first because once you start welding you are violating the de-mill. I understand your thinking though. If you can ship it direct to them you don't need the FFL hassle. Your safest bet is to ask but will it draw any un-wanted attention? Good luck on an answer. There is an ATF field office in Middleburg by the UPS depot. I don't know if they could answer your question directly. Ideally a letter from the tech branch would be the best, safest, bet.

[Cpt_Kirks]

What about dummy gun receivers?

The BRP 80% "dummy" just needs the blocking plate knocked out, the rivet holes drilled and the ejection port milled out (plus the SA mods, of course). At that point, it is is title 1 firearm.

Sure, you still need to add rails, camming piece, ect., but it is firearm requiring a serial number at that point.

Though, all that probably takes at least 8 hours (or 80!).

[striker754]

There's no 8 hour rule LOL. Otherwise every 1919 out there would be a machine gun because taking down the ridge on the sideplate wouldnt take 8 hours.

[Cpt_Kirks]

There's no 8 hour rule LOL. Otherwise every 1919 out there would be a machine gun because taking down the ridge on the sideplate wouldnt take 8 hours.

Ridge? What ridge?

Are you sure you don't have that backwards? The right sideplate on an approved SA M1919 is ~.065in thicker than a FA. There is a GROOVE machined into the sideplate that allow the SA modified parts to funtion.

To use FA parts, the right sideplate would have to be removed, planed down and replaced. That will take a while. For most people, probably more than 8 hours.

I would say there is probably no "8 hour rule". More like a rule of thumb.

[striker754]

Sounds to me like you have never seen a 1919 sideplate. You have a raised area that protrudes into the box to keep FA internals from being inserted. Without that ridge you can put FA stuff in.

The groove is machined into the internals not the plate.

[lkiers]

striker is corect, the semi side plate has a raised ridge runing down the center lengthwise, your internals must be machined to clear it.

[smoggle]

I bet you could remove the internals and mill it out in a fairly short amount of time. Good way to meet a new boyfriend though.

[Reichpapers]

There's no 8 hour rule LOL. Otherwise every 1919 out there would be a machine gun because taking down the ridge on the sideplate wouldnt take 8 hours.

Striker is 100% correct...also 8 hours on an AR15 or Ak47??? More like 30 mins.