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Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

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bergflak
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Postby bergflak » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:43 am

HOW they actually managed to ship their equipment (and I mean all the stuff they actually manufactured) from the factories to the front line beats me. I would THINK that they used larger crates for the gun exports, as that would have been a little more convenient than 1 box each. The only stuff I can remember to have seen concerning the shipment of goods is the Mauser factory boxes for K98k (that I think was pictured in "Backbone of the WH").

What I do know is that the Portuguese crates for the Metra M944 in no way resembles German WW2 made boxes! The hardware is non-German, the internal dividers in German boxes are normally made of oak, and certainly not pine which tends to break quite easily! The construction of the box itself is also un-German, actually rather "raw" compared to normal German box-making techniques. The "outside" cross bars underneath, the built in handles at the end etc. Not one little chicken stamp!? The rest of the stuff in the export deal all carries WaA markings. The norm is that German crates are WaA marked, but not so with these! There is a lot of details that doesn't add up, and none that actually does! (If you don't count the fact that the guns have been stored in these crates for a long periode of time before they were exported with them as solid proof of German manufacture!)
If they were indeed made in Germany in 1943 they must have been made after Portuguese specifications in "uncontrolled" factories, but I find that hard to believe.
I understand that people would like to BELIEVE the crates are German WW2, but there is just no evidence to support the belief! And as you quite right point out; there is no known GERMAN used crates for these guns documented either!

Personally, I have the gun from the box, but disposed the box years ago, as I found it of no interest!

BELTLEAD

Postby BELTLEAD » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:01 pm

Hi Berg! I bought a couple of items from you on eBay a few years ago.DO you still have those MG42 conversion cradles for the MG34 Lafette? (I bought one of those from you).If any of you guys are looking for rare MG34 items,Berglak is probably the best source because I think he lives in Norway where their army adopted the MG34 in post-war years.

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Postby bergflak » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:53 am

Hi again there!

Strictly not on topic, but yeah! I still have the MG34 inventory. Send me a PM and we can work it out!

BRP CORP

Re: Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

Postby BRP CORP » Thu May 01, 2008 10:23 pm

I saw one like that at IMA in March 08. The kit was painted rather than blued supposedly for tropical use. This is just the story I was told. As with most of this old stuff it's hard to verify anything.

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Re: Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

Postby DARIVS ARCHITECTVS » Fri May 02, 2008 2:22 pm

Arms were issued at any of the depots spread out all over Europe. Often they were at railyards. I imagine that soldiers could pick up weapons and ammo at these prestaged depots on the way to the front and caryied them there, not in crates. If you were yo find any crates or racks at all for firearms, it would be at a depot.
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Re: Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

Postby panzerwest » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:54 pm

Here is a link to some measurements a guy posted on a 1/6th scale forum of a full size export case should give you all the measurements you need and closeups of the hardware http://www.sixtharmygroup.com/portal/vi ... &&start=20 hope this helps

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Re: Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

Postby JBaum » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:44 am

To save some space, here's a link to another message with a picture of a GERMAN MG34 transport box:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5812&start=15
John@German<remove this>Manuals.com

http://www.GermanManuals.com

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Re: Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

Postby SCHNELLSPRITZE » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:23 pm

Achtung!!!!!!

I seen a 5cm mortar transit crate earlier this year , the configuration, storage compartments and "German" stenciling were all very very similar to the Porto crates. I know this does not confirm that the Germans made a crate for their own use but it does hint that the crates were made buy the germans for the transport of that large volume contract. As mentioned above it seems highly unpractical that the buyers (Portugal) would manufacture the crates and send them to Germany prior to delivery?? I read the shipment that also included 100 lafette tripods ,BMW motor bike and side car combo's and 8cm mortars were all transported via Rail after it was thought unpractical to send them by Sea via Sweden. Both parties would have understood the logistics of sending multiple item kit these routes. I have also seen at the time of the Portugese Mg34's first coming onto the collectors market (early 90's) transit crates painted in German ordnance dark gray paint as well as green . It seems a strange coincidence that the Portugese would use that colour paint after making their own crates and sending them to Germany prior to them being sent back to Portugal!!!!!!
There is a nice example of a dark grey crate in the Cobbaton Combat Museum in North Devon UK. However an advanced mg collecting friend has two or three examples of these crates including a Grey one, I will try to get a photo of it for everyone to consider. This is a highly interesting subject and one I have talked about in depth before. it will remain a matter of opinion until a German example or photo of a German example turns up. However the 5cm mortar crate answered a lot of my own theories about this because I had never heard of or seen a crate like it for that particular weapon , but it existed and served the same purpose as these crates that we are debating. The purpose being safe transportation until delivered to the depot/unit/arsenal. That proves a crate like this was a German practice .
Schnell

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Re: Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

Postby SCHNELLSPRITZE » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:41 pm

Just another thought,
Its stange that if the Portugese were so very concerned about the safe transport of their Mgs even to the extent of sending (theoretically) crates to Germany prior to shipping . That there has never been a Portugese Mg13 crate turn up. Because prior to the Mg 34 contract Portugal purchased a large quantity of MG13's along with E tins, Gunners pouches , Barrel cases, Magazine carriers and bandoliers. Was this because the Germans already considered the 13 obsolite?? and did not bother crating them up? or had the client asked for their new weapons to be protected for the journey??

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Re: Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

Postby SCHNELLSPRITZE » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:49 pm

Hi All
Check this out, a transport case for the Mp40 external painted in the same shade as the Portugese crates external stenciled with the German weapon designation MP 40. Look at the way the case is fitted out to take the accessories very a kin to the 34 crate. Food for thought?? seen one brought up by divers from a U boat wreck a few years ago too.
mp40transit.jpg

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Re: Portuguese contract 34 in transit/storage box.

Postby SCHNELLSPRITZE » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:13 pm

Hi
A few other additions for contemplation , as well as supplying mg34's to Portugal the Germans also exported Mg15's both to Portugal and to Rumania. the weapons for export were designated ST61 instead of the German designation Mg15. I recently asked an mg collecting friend about his opinions regarding the Portugese 34 crates, he owns three or four of these crates and is convinced they are of German manufacture the main point to substantiate his opinion were German language carpenters pencil notes on the inside of two of his crates. I asked if he would let me photo this to contribute to this thread and he refused because he says he was happy to let people believe they were not German to keep the price of these items low while they are still available fairly easily :? He went on to show me a crate for the export ST61 he also thinks that this crate was of German manufacture instead of Portugese or Rumanian. Ironic as it turns out Damien who posted this thread originally has the exact same crate but stenciled Mg15 with additional German lettering. This crate originates from Jersey and has been there since WW2 :shock: Does this confirm that this type of crate was a German practice with all small/medium arms?


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