blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Blanking adapting the MG42, MG3 and MG34
Blanksguy
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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:16 am

Hi Steve,
You will have to go back to the beginning and list all the details about your MG42 or SA42 along with all of the modifications and settings that you have tried.....and when exactly the bent blank-cases are found and where you find them.

At that point, I will be able to better understand where you are, and what you have.....along with a better understanding of what Blanks you are trying to use....and what settings/modifications/etc. you are using.

I may ask for photos of some items if they are modification that are different than "standard-issue" MG42 Parts.

I hope that this helps for now.
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

reb62

Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby reb62 » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:07 pm

Greetings all,

OK, I want a blank firing barrel for my MG-42. MARSTAR Canada has them for $400 to $500 bucks (lets not waste time with opinions if they are worth it or not please.....thank you.)

All I want to know are 2 questions based on the fact that these are for sale in Canada:

1. Are blank firing barrels considered a "GUN BARREL"?

2. If not.....are blank firing barrels also restricted for importation as live fire barrels are?

Yes, I did do a search on this and did not find these spesific questons asked nor answered, unless I just missed it.

Thanks all.

Blanksguy
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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:17 pm

reb62.....
To "fairly" answer your questions.......
Question 1: As you will have to submit the BATF Form 6 thru the "Imports-Branch", they (BATF) will have to tell you (by definition) if they determine "Blank-Barrel-Assemblies" to be either "Barrels" or Training-Aids/Sumulators for sorts....and if they are "Importable".
Try listing it down as a "training-aid/simulator for use in Reenacting".

As for Question 2:
.....please refer back to Answer 1 above.
I believe that "Barrels" with out a "sporting-purpose" were not allowed to be imported. If BATF goes with the idea of those being able to fire "projectiles......you won't have any luck because of old "wood-tipped" Blanks still being out there. Same if they go with "military-surplus". You may have luck if they go with a training-aid....or as a simulator.

On the same subject......why would you spend $400-$500 for a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly that you can make here in the USA for less (?)......even at the cost of two MG-42 barrels.......and some machinists time I can't see $400-$500 total.
Just be careful of "original" marked barrels.......who is to say that the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly that you get was made in 1942-1945.....or were those barrels made up late from 2-WWII German-marked MG42 Barrels later.
I know that the set-up that I had made was made from WWII German Barrels......but that was made less than ten years ago here in the USA.

Last, John up at MARSTAR will not export any gun part to the USA without an approved BATF Form 6 that he can call and verify.
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

reb62

Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby reb62 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:38 pm

OK.....that's good info, but it's not the money. I would just prefer an original. That's jsut my preference and if I can't find one here locally then I'm willing to to go the extra mile and try a Form 6. It doesn't hurt to ask. Worst thing that can happen is they say "NO".

So. with your info in mind:

1. Who is willing to make me a blank barrel right now that placed side by side with an origianl, would be very close to identical for collectors purposes? And how much?

2. Since you already know what I'm willing to pay, who already has one they are willing to sell me?

Thanks.

Roscoeturner
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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Roscoeturner » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:00 am

“Never speak in absolutes when speaking of history, you may be proved wrong with the next spade of dirt or turn of the page.”

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:54 pm

Rottenfuhrer,
I would not bid on that MG-42 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly.......and wouldn't buy one like it unless you were going to re-machine the rear-half.....and make a new front half

NOTE: The problem with the MG-42 Blank-Barrel-Assembly as shown in on that auction is that the "front-half" has nothing to keep it from moving forward (the "flair" at the rear is missing)....what will happen is that it will "hammer" the keys on the Barrel-Bearing and key-ways in the front of the MG-42/SA-42 receiver until either breaks.....keys or key-ways.
The "flair" that should be there, is used to stop the front-half from moving forward by the bracket that it riveted into the receiver just under the rear-sight-mounting-bracket. Without it, the front-half would move forward........
....and no, the "keys" on the Barrel-Bearing will not stop it for very long......you might be lucky to fire 100 med-"hot" 8x57mm Blanks before they are sheared-off.

Please look at the photos below for a comparison of what the MG-42/SA-42 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly should look like.

Last....if you could get that auction cheaply......you could re-machine the rear-half.....then take a second-spare-MG-42-Barrel and machine a correct front half with "flair" at the rear.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
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MG42-BFA-6.jpg
MG42-BFA-3.jpg

Gurowski

Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Gurowski » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:08 pm

I use one of those types of barrels in my 53's and they work OK with a little extra modification. I use them because we cant get the proper type here that Blanks guy showed in his post.
Blanks guy is correct, they do shear off the 4 little lugs on the barrel bushing at the front. To get round this, we fit a 5mm thick washer to the front of the bush then screw on the nozzle. This washer prevents the 4 lugs from hitting/bottoming out and shearing off.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Roscoeturner » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:48 pm

Blanksguy wrote:Rottenfuhrer,
I would not bid on that MG-42 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly.......and wouldn't buy one like it unless you were going to re-machine the rear-half.....and make a new front half

NOTE: The problem with the MG-42 Blank-Barrel-Assembly as shown in on that auction is that the "front-half" has nothing to keep it from moving forward (the "flair" at the rear is missing)....what will happen is that it will "hammer" the keys on the Barrel-Bearing and key-ways in the front of the MG-42/SA-42 receiver until either breaks.....keys or key-ways.
The "flair" that should be there, is used to stop the front-half from moving forward by the bracket that it riveted into the receiver just under the rear-sight-mounting-bracket. Without it, the front-half would move forward........
....and no, the "keys" on the Barrel-Bearing will not stop it for very long......you might be lucky to fire 100 med-"hot" 8x57mm Blanks before they are sheared-off.

Please look at the photos below for a comparison of what the MG-42/SA-42 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly should look like.

Last....if you could get that auction cheaply......you could re-machine the rear-half.....then take a second-spare-MG-42-Barrel and machine a correct front half with "flair" at the rear.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net


No worries about me bidding on it, I am a MG34 shooter. :D
“Never speak in absolutes when speaking of history, you may be proved wrong with the next spade of dirt or turn of the page.”

reb62

Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby reb62 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:50 pm

Rottenfuhrer,

Thanks. I believe you posted the auction in response to my request, though good information on behalf of Blankguy and will heed to his advise in regards to the missing flange. It makes sense.

Question to Blanksguy:

Would it be possible to professionally weld on a flange to the front barrel of the one in this auction and make it right? If so, then I would like to think this blank firing barrel would be a good one to start with considering a lot of the work has already been done.

Blanksguy.........sell me one of your blank 42 barrels!.........can't hurt to ask. :mrgreen:

Or......perhaps you would loan me one with a deposite in order to take acurate measurements to to get the specs on paper to build them right and or you could provide the same?

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:32 pm

Pete Stout (Class-III Manufacture/SOT-07) had told me in the past that he tried to weld on a washer onto the end of one of the "flange-less" MG-42 2-pcs. Blank-Barrels are it cracked......I didn't ask him if it came apart (??).

I will try to get some time in the next day or two and make up some plans....photograph them .....and then post them under here.

To do it correctly (so as to not have problems later) the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly should be made up from a good/used MG-42 Barrel.....and then a few "piston-rear-sections" w/extensions which can be either be made up from old barrel-assemblies, or made on used extensions and a good grade barrel-matterial for the piston/chamber-end of the correct outside-diameter for the "flair".

NOTE: You can also make these up in: 8x57mm.......7.62x51mmNATO/.308.......and even 30/06 for Blanks only.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
......and for the MODs (and Salt6), for me....with the information that I have been submitting/posting.......it sure would be nice if I could go back and have the "ability" to "edit" some of my older "Posts" and "information".
I have been here for years.....haven't deleated any of my old information/photos.....and still posting as much useful information as I can, when time permits.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Roscoeturner » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:22 pm

Blanksguy,

What about the same deal but in 7.62 for an MG34?
“Never speak in absolutes when speaking of history, you may be proved wrong with the next spade of dirt or turn of the page.”

reb62

Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby reb62 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:38 pm

You know you can purchase original blank firing MG-34 barrels from IO.INC for $150. I own two of them and they work great in my TNW MG-34 for reenactments.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Roscoeturner » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:45 pm

Thanks I have several originals in 8mm but I would like one in 7.62 to use in my F/A MG34. Those blanks are much less expensive than the 8mm.
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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:20 pm

Rottenfuhrer,
Please ask the MG-34 Blank-Adapting questions at the end of the "Blank-Adapting the MG34" Thread over in the MG-34 Section where they will help more owners of MG-34s and SA-34s asked over there.

But to answer your question.....as it will relate to making up an additional rear-section in 7.62x51mm for the MG-42/SA-42:

Due to the fact that most of these "2-pcs Blank-Barrel-Assemblies" were made up by WW-II German Field-Repair-Gunsmiths, and different countries after WWII, most parts do not interchange. As such, a "blue-print" was never made to my knowledge.........just "general-guidelines" issued for making these.
Most of the parts on these assemblies may not interchange with "like-parts" from another 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel.

To make up an additional rear-section in 7.62x51mmNATO/.308 for your MG-34/SA-34 or MG-42/SA-42.....do the following:

1: Procure the required parts:
A: A spare Barrel-Extension.
B: A piece of new barrel that is at least 1.370" in diameter....and about 7" long......you might be able to get away with a section of shot-out 1919A4 barrel, but the diameter won't be there to "stake" the barrel-section to the barrel-extension.

NOTE: If you already have a rear-section in 7.62x51mmNATO/.308 (and just need one in 8x57mm......just take a spare 8x57mm Barrel-Assembly with extension to a Machine-Shop and have them machine it to the same out-side "profile" as your old rear-section.

If all you need is a 30/06-chambered rear-section (for Blanks-only)....take a spare 8x57mm Barrel-Assembly w/extension to a Machine-Shop and have them machine it for the same "profile" as your old rear-section "then" take that to a Gunsmith (with your Bolt-Assembly) and have him re-chamber it to 30/06 and head-space it (loose-side) to your Bolt that you provided him. The differences in the chamber profile will not effect firing of Blanks with their lower pressures.

2: Take the above two parts, and your old rear-section along with your Bolt-Assembly and tell the "Gunsmith" to make the new-rear-section with the same size (+/- .001") as your old-rear-section "and" to chamber it for 7.62x51mmNATO on the "loose-side" for "Head-Space" using the bolt that you supply him.

NOTE: Most of the measurements are not critical such as the exact location of the grooves on the piston......just insure that you have from .005"-.010" piston-clearance so that the piston will slide easily inside the rear of the front-section of the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly, and that the "Gunsmith" stays within +/- .001" as a reference point for "diameters" of parts.

Additionally.....so as to not mix parts/assemblies up......you should "number" the extra rear-section to the Blank-Barrel in some way (Metal-Stamps work well).

IO's MG-34 Blank-Barrels do work.....even though the front-piston is removeable, they are 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies. A better idea for these is to take the front and drill/tap them for 1/2x20TPI Allen-Set-Screws which makes them more ajustable to other Blanks. ....then just keep a chart for what size-restrictions to use with different calibers and different Blanks.

I will try to post some basic-drawings for Board-Members to have their own made in the next day or two for members that want to make up 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies that look like "live-barrels".

Last.....For "SAFETY" remember to remove any Blank-Adapted-Barrels and restrictions and replace with live Barrels, Booster-Cups/"Nozzles", etc. after cleaning and getting your gun ready to put away.
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Roscoeturner » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:21 pm

Blanksguy,

Thank you for all the information, unfortunately it sounds like a lot more trouble than it is worth at least for me. I never have shot blanks with my 34 and I doubt I will. I was just curious about the barrel.
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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:57 pm

Rottenfuhrer,
I am a little confused with your earlier statement :

Rottenfuhrer wrote:Thanks I have several originals in 8mm but I would like one in 7.62 to use in my F/A MG34. Those blanks are much less expensive than the 8mm.


....and your last statement about now not needing one because you have never shot blanks with your MG34, and doubt that you ever will (???).

My next "post" will be to add the information for 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies as some members may want to build these to fire "Blanks".
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:07 pm

For those that want the basic information to make their own 2-pcs. Blank-Barrels, I have made up some 5x8-cards with the basic-information and posted these as photos as shown below.

NOTE: Original 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies were made by unit arms repair personnel from basic guidance that the WWII German Military issued. As such....parts may not interchange from one set to the next.
If you already have a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly.......and just want an additional "Rear-Section" in a different caliber to be able to use other Blanks.......just use your old "Rear-Section" as a guide for the "Gunsmith" to use for measurements in making up your new "Rear-Section". He will also need your Bolt-Assembly to set-up "Head-Space". Remind him to set "Head-Space" up on the "loose-side".

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
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000-1-1.jpg
000-1-2.jpg
000-1-3.jpg

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Bil » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:17 pm

Richard-Thank you for all the time and energy you put into your posts.While I have no interest in using blanks at this time,I find them very informative and detailed.Thanks again. ---bil
"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert

Roscoeturner
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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Roscoeturner » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:28 pm

Blanksguy wrote:Rottenfuhrer,
I am a little confused with your earlier statement :

Rottenfuhrer wrote:Thanks I have several originals in 8mm but I would like one in 7.62 to use in my F/A MG34. Those blanks are much less expensive than the 8mm.


....and your last statement about now not needing one because you have never shot blanks with your MG34, and doubt that you ever will (???).

My next "post" will be to add the information for 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies as some members may want to build these to fire "Blanks".
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net


No confusion intended, I was curious about this as a possible future thing to do but the trouble to accomplish this was more than I wanted to deal with. It is true I never have fired blanks in the 34 and have no intention of firing 8MM blanks through it due to the expensive in using them for full auto. At a quarter a pop, the money would be much more fun being spent at the casino. :) Now that I know what a pain it would be to convert a barrel to 7.62 it causes the "...doubt I ever will statement".
“Never speak in absolutes when speaking of history, you may be proved wrong with the next spade of dirt or turn of the page.”

reb62

Cycling blanks through my MG42

Postby reb62 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:56 pm

Greetings group,

Need a little input for cycling issue.

Took my 42 out to the range today to test fire 8mm blanks and to test what allen restricters get this gun to cycle correctly.

Here's the facts.

1. 43 dfb German 42 (not Yugo).
2. .308 top feed cover.
3. .308 feed tray.
4. 8mm barrel.
5. Allen restricters range from .25 to .125
6. Tested both Swanson's and Atlantic Wall blanks with same results.

Only the .125 restricter got the gun to almost cycle, but would not eject or should I say, the bolt would not go all the way back enough to fully eject, but just enough to grab another live blank, thus a mid feed jam.

My questions:

1. Should I go smaller than .125 to build up a bit more preasure?
2. Should I shorten the buffer spring which is currently 10" long.

If I left any details out of this scenario that I didn't think of, please let me know.

Thanks for any input.


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