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blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Blanking adapting the MG42, MG3 and MG34
cediboy
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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby cediboy » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:58 pm

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... _32781.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... 8277e5.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... 44d7c4.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... 7bf362.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... ed3b72.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... b1897a.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... df74c6.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... affc20.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... 768066.jpg

The only restriction i see is in the barrel, it is plugged at 2 places inside. I guess to prevent a re-use with live ammo and i suppose to send back some gaz to push back the rear barrel.

It is jaming after the very first shot. bolt does not come back. If i am lucky, I can pull it back with the handle, most of the time it is blocked.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:41 am

Cedric,
Thank you for the photos....they do show a lot of detail and do help a lot.

To start to correct your ability to fire "Blanks" in the full-auto MG42, you will need to drill and tap the muzzle of the forward section of your 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly. In the USA, we would do this with 1/2x20TPI Allen-Set-Screws. Drill and tap your muzzle down about 1" (US).
In Europe/France, you will need to first locate and purchase about 10-15 Metric-Thread allen-set-screw for this.

Then, you will drill these for about ten different size restrictions......starting about .200" (US), .190" (US), and smaller in increments of about .005"-.010" .

After you have these made, start with the largest BFA Hole-Size that you have drilled (using two Blanks only on the belt) and keep working down smaller until your gun starts to work firing both Blanks.
Next, try about ten Blanks and try to stop in the middle of the tem Blanks.....if you can stop, you are about the correct restriction........if the gun continues to fire, then drop the BFA Hole-Size down by .005"-.010" and try again.

Last, after it starts to work, make the BFA Hole-Size about .005" smaller to operate when the MG42 gets dirty.
You will also need a couple spare/drilled smaller set-screws for when you fire the MG42 in colder climates as powder/primers ignite slower in the cold.

Let us know how things progress and if you have any other challanges (problems).

Regards, RichardS in MI.
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
PS: As you are in France, I am looking for a 1915 CSRG Chauchat wooden magazine-box that would hold/carry ten (10) Chauchat 20-rd. magazines during and after WWI.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:18 pm

Cedric,

Below is a photo of what the muzzle will look like after you drill/tap the muzzle for allen-set-screws. The MG42 muzzle is on the left.....the muzzle on the right is for the MG34.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
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000-0-1D.jpg

cediboy
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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby cediboy » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:10 pm

Great!!!! It is cristal clear.

I'll start tomorrow afternoon.

Thank you so much Richard.

I'll post photos soon.

Cedric.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby cediboy » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:32 am

Richard, does my top cover is configurated for shooting 8mm mauser or NATO or both? I of course had a look at the "stickies" section but it is not that clear to me.

I ask you this because i have in my spare parts a wartime 8mm blank barrel, well, that's what i have been told when i bought it. Maybe you can confirm it...

I had a look yesterday and i was surprised to see a barrel restriction in the form you described... I never really paid attention to it before. Please have a look:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... e14a54.jpg

the barrel restriction:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... 255948.jpg

I can get some 8mm blank, but does my top cover will work?

Ced.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:36 pm

Hi Cedric,
I tell people to try their original 8x57mm parts first as they will usually work (with barrel-change) when firing 7.62x51mm Blanks. My "cra" MG42 would work with only the change of barel for firing Blanaks.

The MG42 Blank-Barrel that you posted a "link" to photos will work (only in the caliber that it is chambered for-8x57mm).........."but" you will have to make new restrictors for it drilled to different size restrictions starting at .200" (US), and working down smaller. To make the original barrel work in 7.62x51mm, you will have to make a new rear-barrel-section with piston chambered in 7.62x51mm, and another barrel-extension.
Some WWII reenactors would usually have you start with your other 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly as it does not have the cooling-fins machined into the center of the barrel.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby cediboy » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:18 pm

Hi Richard,

i think i can locate leather pouches for your 1915, but a wooden crate will be very difficult. I know somebody who makes very nice reproductions of any kind of crate. If you a blueprint, pictures and basic dimensions, i can get you a quotation.

Here is an exemple of my wooden transportation crate for my MG:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... e7510b.jpg

The barrel with cooling-fins machined into the center is a 8mm two pieces blank barrel.
The other one is in a NATO two pieces blank barrel.

1/If i understood well, for both of them, i have to try different kind of barrel restrictions, starting from 0.200 inch (5mm?) hole, going down in increments of about .005"-.010", adjust the depth of it, till i find the right blow back right?

2/My top cover mechanism will work in both blank caliber? Only a change of barrel will be necessary if i want to swap from 8MM mauser to NATO? Sorry, you might have answered already but my english is not that good and i am not sure i understood you on that point.

How looks like my top cover:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43 ... a069b7.jpg

Thanks a lot.

PS: i am looking for a feed block, that is screwed or welded on the feed tray when shooting NATO with 8MM feed tray. If you have one extra or know somebody.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:58 pm

Hi Cedric,
Yes, most 8x57mm MG42s will fire 8x57mm or 7.62x51mm Blanks with only a change of barrel due to chamber differences. Top-Cover looks good......you should try it.

On the restriction.......you only drill/tap the front of the muzzle down to about 1" (US).
When you install your drilled-restrictors........you screw them into the bottom of that 1' (US) threaded hole in the muzzle....no other adjustment is needed for depth. For adjustments....you look at what you MG42 is doing ..... too little recoil where the bolt is not ejecting the fired Blank or not coming back far enough to catch the next Blank, or a run-away-gun = you are using too large of a BFA Hole-Size/Restriction......make it smaller.
In the same light, too much recoil/hard recoiling of the bolt hitting the buffer = you are using too small a BFA Hole-Size/Restriction so go to a larger hole-size.

On the feed-block part.....I believe that you are talking about one of the 8x57mm feed-trays for the MG42 that were converted with a "spacer" at the front to keep 7.62x51mm cartridges to the rear of the feed-tray (?). If so.....you can make one easily from a small block of aluminum, and attach it to a spare MG42 feed-tray with screws. Or you can ask for an "8x57mm feed-tray adapted to use 7.62x51mm cartridges".....these should be available in Germany or England as surplus.

For my 1915 CSRG Chauchat, we have people here in the US that do the leather pouches, slings, wooden-crates/boxes, etc. .........I am only looking for an original Magazine-Box/Chest that held ten (10) 20-rd. Chauchat magazines...........an original or reproduction gun-cover, and an original single-shot metal adaptor-plate for the gun.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby cediboy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:05 pm

Yes, i am talking about one of the 8x57mm feed-trays for the MG42 that were converted with a "spacer" at the front to keep 7.62x51mm cartridges to the rear of the feed-tray.

I saw some here so well made...

Sure, i can still do something but i like this insert very much.

Ced.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Minka » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:53 am

cediboy wrote:Yes, i am talking about one of the 8x57mm feed-trays for the MG42 that were converted with a "spacer" at the front to keep 7.62x51mm cartridges to the rear of the feed-tray.

This modification was arsenally made at all MG42 be'in early converted to Bundeswehr/BGS MG42/58/MG1 oder early austrian Bundesheer MG42-Standart (.30, 7,62x51 cardridge).
Genererally before Rheinmetall and Steyr startet their own, postwar production.

If you start this modification of a 7,92-feedtray, it's also possible to add some guiderail for disintegrating belt links.
Same like MG3 or Mg74 feedtray.
Deactivatet Systems. Legal.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby waynek2 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:23 pm

Hi,

New to the forum. I have a WLA 53 and would like to convert to blanks. .308 would be ideal but it sounds like I need a 2-peice barrel. Question is - where to get one. Any help would be appreciated.

Wayne

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:18 am

Okay guys......
By popular demand.......I'm getting ready to do another short "run" of the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies for the MG42/MG3/M53/SA42.

I will need to know if you want only the 7.62x51mm....or the 8x57mm.....or a fitted-set where you have both rear/piston-section and only one front-section.
NOTE: Been a while for me to work with the machineshop so price to be determined (but should be near the old/earlier prices.).

Contact me at my below listed e-mail address to be put on the "list" which will be filled as "first-come-first-served" :
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

Regards, RichardS in Bay City, MI.
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby ShaneH » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:27 pm

Hi lads im having a little problem with my orig mg42 full auto blank firing im using a 7.92 yugo mg53 blank barrel with red tip blanks the strongest i can get and a 14mm booster cone. the mg will fire 20 to 50 rounds before it double feeds some times it mite even fire of 100 rounds. could this be caused by inconsistent ammo or could the recoil spring be slightly to stiff. i also have an 11mm booster cone but haven't tried firing with it yet. the only thing changed on the mg for blank firing is the barrel.

Shane

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:29 pm

Shane,
Welcome to the MG42-Board,

As we know that you have read all of the first seven pages of this "Blank-Adapting the MG42 Thread", I will skip some of the possibilities to your Blank-Adapting-"Challange" as I now know that you have a good running MG42/M53 Machinegun.

When Blank-Adapting the MG42, we must have a clear picture/idea of what your Blank-Adapting "System" looks like where the restriction is located, and what size restriction that you are using......please make this clear to us so that we can better help you.
I will also need to know:
1: When you say that you are using "Red-Tip" Blanks.......are you referring to the PPU manufactured full-length 8x57mm Blanks (?)......or manufactured by __________ (?).

2: When you say that you get a "double-feed" about every 20-50 Blanks, I have to assume that the gun fires well/without issues with live 8x57mm ammo........correct (?).
By what you are discribing to me here, it sounds more like you are either having a slight issue with the BFA-Hole-Size/Restriction size........(which you should make slightly smaller by about .005"-010" (US-measurement)). This will also assist you as the gun starts to get dirty and slows down due to more friction on the parts.
If the gun is slowing down due to a combination of dirt from fring the Blanks and the parts being made without enough clearance (such as with an incorrectly made 2-pcs. Blank-Firing-Barrel-Assembly) then the parts will need to be checked/measured and "adjusted".

I have now hit out 2,000 letter maximum and will continue this reply in the next "Thread-Part"
Regards, RichardS in MI.

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:40 pm

(....above 2 continued.):

The other items that you will have to check.......and this part gets said over.....and over......and over (and why we ask people to read the entire Topic-Threads):
....you will have to insure that you have no binding of parts/everything moves freely (lubricated), that the extractor and ejectors are good, ammo-belts not too tight nor have a tight-link every now-and-then.....etc....etc....

Please post a photo(s) of your Blank-Barrel-Assembly and where/how you have the restriction so we can help you more.

Again, because you have read the entire Topic seven pages......it most likely sounds like you are having an issue with:
1: Your BFA Hole-Size/Restriction needs to be made slightly smaller (.005"-.010" US).
2: You need to check that your Blank-Firing-Barrel-Assembly is not made too tight where it heats up and expands the parts due to heat......this with the dirt from firing may slow down your "system".
3: Check your ammo-belts.
4: The Blanks should be good if they are from a quality manufacturer.
5: You should not have to cut any coils off of your recoil-spring.

Regards, RichardS in MI, USA
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby ShaneH » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:37 pm

Thanks for the reply the barrel im using is a one piece yugo army training barrel that tapers down to a small hole at the muzzle. the barrel is the only blank firing system im using with the mg ill post more details of the ammo and photos of the barrel after the weekend as i dont have them to hand right now.
The belts im using are wartime and work great the ammo passes through the links smoothly.
the mg is well lubed and all the parts work perfect.

Thanks for all the help Shane

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby blckwlfny » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:53 pm

Hello All,
...The saga of the $3k paperweight continues.....
Im using the green plastic german blanks (DAG) in my S/A '42 and im having a problem with double-feeds at seemingly random points
it doesnt matter how light the spring is. I have 4 springs running from "average" to "so weak it barely strips the certirdge" and it happens with all of them ...it'll work fine for 5, 10, 15 rounds and then...double feed!
ironically enough, when i pulled the firing pin spring out (BRP one piece firing pin) it slam-fired and cycled like a champ through 20 rounds. When it stopped, the next cartridge was chambered fine and ready to go.
???...any suggestions????
ill post the specs in the next post....2000 word limit


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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby blckwlfny » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:55 pm

Here's all the specs
The Gun: MG-42 Receiver re-weld in semiauto configuration by Black river militaria
Fires live no prob...occasional double-tap
The belts are grey post-war (with dog-leg). I have slightly loosened all my belts by opening them a bit so they don't grip the round as tight
Bolt is an Original (not wiselite) pattern made by gordiek using a BRP one-piece FP. It has a roller to engage the feed arm, not a stud
Feed tray:MG 2 .308 feed tray (no accommodation for plastic drum)
Feed ramp angle checked with armorers tool..."A-OK"
Firing pin protrusion checked with armorers tool..."A-OK"
Barrel is .308 with a clean and polished battery (using soft chamber brush and flitz)
rails clean and free of debris...bolt travels freely down to battery under own weight when gun is at 45 degree downward angle
trigger system: BRP grip and internals...recently (20 rounds ago) serviced and checked by gunsmith
Recuperator: passes the "pogo" test
Spring :3 ranging from the strongest used for live fire to a very weak one that does barely strips the rounds. (the problem happened with all 3)
BLANK ADAPTING SYSTEM: despite the work of 4 gunsmiths, the gun would not function on blanks. Finally one professional had an idea to remove the rollers. The barrel was then threaded with an oraficed plug and the system was made to function as a pure blowback system ON BLANKS ONLY I have had no issues with out of battery detonations
BFA Hole Sizei dont recall what number bit was used, but i just measured it with calipers: It is 0.1480" and it is threaded directly into the end of the barrel (NOTE my post....no rollers)

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby Blanksguy » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:18 pm

blckwlfny,
Thank you for posting this as an "addition" to the Blank-Adapting the MG42 Thread.

Knowing that you have read the previous 7+ pages.....we will go straight into your SA42 using only your style of Blank-Firing only.......which I would not recommend due to some safety matter "if" you change over to brass-cased blanks.

First......your discription is of a working SA42 that fires a "double-tap" from time-to-time.......that would indicate to me that your Booster-Cup for live-firing is slightly too large as the bolt may be coming back far enough to eject/chamber the next live-round, but not enough to catch the firing-pin to the semi-auto-sear. To go more into sorting that out, I would suggest that you ask that question in the building-section for SA42s.......

Next....."BLANK-ADAPTING" challanges..........
You discribed an SA42 where you are trying to fire the German Plastic 7.62x51mm Blanks........these are "weak" Blanks at best......and require a small BFA Hole-Size/Restriction for operation.

You say that you checked the top-cover cartridge-depressor (feed-ramp-angle) and that it was good. I believe that the 8x57mm uses a different gauge/different angle than 7.62x51mm due to shorter cartridge-length of the 7.62x51mm (?).....or is your SA42 only set up with 7.62x51mm Parts (?).

On the challanges of firing .308 plastic-blanks.........with the non-locking bolt that you are using.....it sounds like you still need to use a smaller BFA Hole-Size. As this information was about .148"..........I would "guess" that you should try something closer to .135"...or even down to .125". and see how it works. Don't start cutting recoil-springs.
The best way is to use a 2-pcs. Blank-Adapted Barrel-Assm. with a locked bolt......this allows the blank to build up pressure and not a slower/unlocked push.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
US Army, Retired
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

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Re: blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

Postby blckwlfny » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:59 am

blanksguy,
thank you

You say that you checked the top-cover cartridge-depressor (feed-ramp-angle) and that it was good. I believe that the 8x57mm uses a different gauge/different angle than 7.62x51mm due to shorter cartridge-length of the 7.62x51mm (?).....or is your SA42 only set up with 7.62x51mm Parts (?).



i have a dedicated 7.62x51mm top cover with all of the proper parts. the only ramp abgle aromorer tool i know of is from jbaum...i assume its based on 8mm as it comes from a german manual.
Are you aware of another tool or template out there?

On the challanges of firing .308 plastic-blanks.........with the non-locking bolt that you are using.....it sounds like you still need to use a smaller BFA Hole-Size. As this information was about .148"..........I would "guess" that you should try something closer to .135"...or even down to .125". and see how it works.

At your suggestion,i will try this.

I am still confused though. Can you please address the reason why this happened just as frequently with a the same hole-size and a horribly weak sprig as well?

I had originally gone a bit larger with the hole because it was determined to be running too hot and overran the disconnector eventually breaking the tip off.
Have you heard of this happening before?

The best way is to use a 2-pcs. Blank-Adapted Barrel-Assm. with a locked bolt......this allows the blank to build up pressure and not a slower/unlocked push.


Will you be making a run of 2-piece barrels in the near future?

Thank you, again. ill keep you advised.
John


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