blank adapting the mg42/m53/mg1-3

[gdmoore28]

What are "allen restrictors"?

Can you post photos?

Thanks for the info. I'll be shooting blanks in mine, too. So the info is handy.

GeeDeeEmm

[Blanksguy]

MODERATORS.......please contact the initial writer of this "THREAD"....and ask if he would allow you to DELETE it and replies to same........
......
..then, if the writer of this "THREAD" asks the question in the "Blank-Adapting the MG42" Thread......I will help him with answers ....this will help more reenactors reading one thread.
**************************************************
reb62,
When you ask the initial question in that "Blank-Adapting the MG42" thread....please give as many details as possible......such as (but not limited to):

****What did Joe-Swanson and AtlanticWallBlanks tell you when you asked about setting up your gun to fire Blanks (???). BFA Hole-Size they suggested to start at when using their Blanks (????)********

1: If the gun is an MG42 or SA42 (?).
2: If you are trying to use a one-pcs. live barrel or 2-pcs. Blank-Firing-Barrel-Assembly (?)......MG42 or MG3 Flash-Hider and what length Barrel-Bearing are you using (?).
3: What modifications were done to fire Blanks (?).
4: What belts are you trying to use (?)...(IE: 8x57mm Belts....or 7.62x51mm/.308 Belts).
5: What caliber Blanks you are using...8x57mm or the 7.62x51mm/.308 Blanks (?).
6: What exactly happens when you pull the trigger (?).
7: Does the gun fire "live-ammunition" well prior to trying Blanks (?).
8: Where does the fired Blanks shell-case end up/come-to-rest...ejected (?).....in the chamber (?).....in the feed/ejection area (?)......is a second Blank partially-fed (?)......a photo might also help here.

I really want to help here......but would rather have these questions all under one thread for others to have one source for help.
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

The posts on Blank Adapting have been merged. Carry on.

[reb62]

First of all thank you DARIVS ARCHITECTVS for the thread merger.

OK, to answer Blanksguy's questions:

****What did Joe-Swanson and AtlanticWallBlanks tell you when you asked about setting up your gun to fire Blanks (???). BFA Hole-Size they suggested to start at when using their Blanks (????)********
.140" BFA

1: If the gun is an MG42 or SA42 (?).
SA42
2: If you are trying to use a one-pcs. live barrel or 2-pcs. Blank-Firing-Barrel-Assembly (?)......MG42 or MG3 Flash-Hider and what length Barrel-Bearing are you using (?).
One-pcs 8mm live barrel with a 1.970" Barel-Bearing
3: What modifications were done to fire Blanks (?).
Drilled and tapped 1/2-20 allen set screws into booster-cone drilled in 5 steps ranging from .250" to .125" increments
4: What belts are you trying to use (?)...(IE: 8x57mm Belts....or 7.62x51mm/.308 Belts).
8x57mm Belts
5: What caliber Blanks you are using...8x57mm or the 7.62x51mm/.308 Blanks (?).
8x57mm
6: What exactly happens when you pull the trigger (?).
The blank fires with no ejection
7: Does the gun fire "live-ammunition" well prior to trying Blanks (?).
Yes, this gun has had 250 rds through it
8: Where does the fired Blanks shell-case end up/come-to-rest...ejected (?).....in the chamber (?).....in the feed/ejection area (?)......is a second Blank partially-fed (?)......a photo might also help here.
The shell casing remains locked in the bolt. The bolt has traveled bakcwards short of contacting the buffer, thus no shell casing ejection, but far enough back for the bolt to go forward to grab another new blank with jamming of the spent shell casing and the new blank in the feed/ejection area

[Blanksguy]

"MODERATORs"...thank you for the help in moving this topic over.
**************************************************

reb62,
As I read through your replies, and the initial information that you posted (and correct me if I am wrong)......Your gun is an SA-42 set up to fire live 8x57mm ammo. I read that the gun fires live ammo well.....and has no "Feeding/Ejection-of-fired-case-Issues/problems" with live 8x57mm ammo ......and that the basic "challange" that you are having is the once your Blanks are fed/fired they do not eject completely and the next live-Blank is not chambered in your SA-42 (semi-only MG-42).

First....on the "Blanks"....both Joe Swanson and Atlantic-Wall-Blanks have different "Loadings" for their 8x57mm Blanks......and as such, will have a different starting BFA Hole-Size (not both starting at .140").

Second.....you are using a one-pcs. Blank-Firing-system, long barrel-bearing (at 1.970" which holds the pressure in longer)....but you are having issues with:
A: "Pressure-loss" when the Blanks are fired.
B: Additional spring-pressure and bolt-weight to overcome within the average SA-42 (I am not familiar with your exact system, and each gun will be different).
C: A combination of both A and B above.
NOTE: I did not include/list other issues such as would effect feeding, etc. as your gun feeds well.

My recommendations at this point:
1: Those Blanks are loaded different so DO NOT MIX Blanks.....you could injur yourself. Separate your Blanks into two "Lots" and you will have to set your SA-42 up differently for each different manufacturer's Blanks.....they are different.

2: It sounds like you are using a standard live-Booster-Cup/"Nozzle" that is set-up to accept allen-set-screws drilled for differnt size restrictions......so I won't go into the possible areas of pressure-loss between the outside of the Barrel-Bearing and the inside of the Booster-Cup/"Nozzle......and one of the reasons why we/I suggest the use of the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly with the Booster-Cup/"Nozzle" removed.

3: Starting with the weaker of the two Blanks that you have (AtlanticWallBlanks)......and that last BFA Hole-Size that you tried (.125") and after chambering a Blank....open the top-cover and put either masking-tape or grease on the receiver so you can see how far back the Bolt is traveling.

4: If it does not travel back far enough to eject the fired blank-cartridge-case....then drop the BFA Hole-Size down by .005"-.010" and try again. Remember to keep a second Blank line up in a belt on your feed-tray for feeding/chambering.

5: Continue this process until the bolt travels back and makes contact with the buffer-head to eject the fired case.
If all of this fails.....your system may have any combination of too much spring-pressure/hammer-pressure/and bolt weight to overcome with the loss od "Fired-Blank-Pressure at the front to make the bolt travel back far/fast enough to eject the Fired-Blank. (Note: You said that it ejected live-fired shell-cases well, so it sould not be the extractor holding the rim hard enough........."but" I would not rule this out if extractor-spring were weak, and/or the extractor-claw was worn (?).
Also check for any "drag" on parts by removing the recoil-spring and slowly pulling the bolt back and forward with the gun empty of ammo. Maybe a rail slighly out of alingment or another part with slightly too much drag.

You may end up having to go to a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly if all else fails.

Last......feed-back on what worked.....and any problems found/how you cured these as this will help me and others in sorting out Blank-Firing Challenges.
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[bmwr12]

Rich this is the same exact problem I am having with my Wiselite M53. I am gonna call them tomorrow and see what the actual bolt upgrade consisted of. I will not be able to try the upgraded bolt with live ammo until at least the weekend. I will send you pics of the catridges and BFA tonight after I get some sleep.
Now I should be able to chamber a blank or live round, not fire and pull the bolt back by hand and it should eject when it hits the buffer?

[reb62]

Blanksguy,

Yes, I do follow the safety proceedure of not mixing blanks as you suggeted.

"My recommendations at this point:
1: Those Blanks are loaded different so DO NOT MIX Blanks.....you could injur yourself. Separate your Blanks into two "Lots" and you will have to set your SA-42 up differently for each different manufacturer's Blanks.....they are different."

I never mix blank manufacturers, infact during my latest test fire I went through the BFA increment steps using one blank manufacturer at a time, then repeating the same process all over again with the next manufacturer taking notes as to what happens with each BFA change with each blank manufacturer.

I will continue with your suggestions of masking tape/grease testing to check exact rearward movement distance of my bolt in the eject process.

Thanks

[bmwr12]

I called wiselite and they are sending me a longer buffer.They changed the bolt design for there recall, they made it longer.They also made a longer buffer.I didnt recieve or know about the longer buffer. Upon disassembling my M53 I now know that my bolt is the new version and my buffer is the old version. The buffer is at least 3/4 inch too short to hit the extractor rod inside the bolt. I will try once again with blanks when I get the new buffer piece.

[bmwr12]

I have figured out my problems and it now runs like a champ. I will list what was done to make a Wiselite Arms M53 work well in my case.

1.latest version M53 with longer buffer,longer mainspring, and newest bolt mod.
2.Bill Guiette Blank adapter
3. Original german or yugo barrel ( barrel provided with gun will not fit with the adaptor i am using)
4. Richard Satterfiled's MG42Blanks
5. Well oiled original Wartime Belts

[reb62]

OK, we are rockin and a rollin now.

Through Blanksguy's suggestions, I gave her another once over in more detail and found that the bolt was binding at the full buffer spring compression point. Blanksguy's tape trick.

It appears that when the bolt extension tube was machined a bit to small or tight for the buffer spring seat, so it was causing the buffer spring to slightly compress in diameter, thus when the bolt compressed the buffer spring at the point of travel over the buffer it was binding enough as to not allow ejection of the casing or full compression.

NOTE: My buffer spring is NOT braised at the end like some buffer springs are.

Rounding out the buffer spring seat at the end of the bolt extension tube cured my problem and she runs great now on blanks with a live fire barrel and .125" allen screw restricter in the booster cone with either Swanson's 8mm blanks or Atlantic Wall 8mm (green tip) blanks.

Again my 42 is a semi-auto German dfb 43, with a live fire 8mm barrel, .308 top feed cover and .308 feed tray (.308 top feed cover and .308 feed tray were changed in order to compensate for the blanks length during feeding).

Thanks all for your input.

[David]

Anyone have any luck using the 7.62 Austrian L31 blanks in a FA MG42?

Plan on using Bill Guiettes adaptor and a complete 7.62 setup on the gun. Are these blanks to light for a 42? I have about 30k rnds of the stuff and the M60 runs good on them and everyone knows a 60 can be finicky, so...

[Blanksguy]

David,
To answer your questions that you have posted:

1: I have a C&R FA MG42 and "yes" have used the Austrian .308 Blanks in my FA MG-42.

2: I believe that your 2nd question is "are they too light to operate the FA MG-42"(???)......no, as stated above, they operate my FA MG-42.
......"but" if you question is will it operate/be as loud as a 1,200 RPM WWII German MG-42 firing live ammo (???).....no way.

What it sounds like you are trying to achieve is to be able to operate a $35,000 FA MG-42 with $.06 Blanks and the cheapest Blank-Adaptor that you can find (????).........it isn't that easy. It will operate, but you won't be very loud using the Blanks that you are wanting to use .....mostly due to using up a lot of energy/pressure to operate the "system" w/a live-barrel.

If you want to be marginally loud enough (and RPM) for it to be use for reenacting in the field (not at public-displays)....locate (or have made) a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly and remove the Booster-Cup/"Nozzle".
Use your louder blanks for the public-displays.

Last, on bill Guiette's web-page.....he gives a discription of his MG-42 Blank-Adaptor as having you remove the barrel-bearing and booster-cup/"nozzle" from what he is saying....and I (and others) would like to see a few photos of this if possible (?). Please post some photos of his Blank-Adaptor that you are (or have) buying from him.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[David]

Ive run the rounds threw my FA 60 and agree that they're not that loud. But, the ammo is on hand Id be more than willing to try if it the sound is anything like the 60. If not there always more blanks to be bought.

Ive seen Bill Guiettes MG34 blank adaptor and it replaces the booster and sleeve and honestly works damn well in my buddies FA MG34. Id figure the 42 setup is about the same idea so figured Id give it a try.

I dont have any pics of what it looks like as I havent received it yet.

[12thWaffenSS]

What are the thoughts on using a MG3/m53 Blank firing adaptor on a Yugo M53 semiautomatic? I don't care how loud it would be. I'm just wondering if the gun would fire and cycle Swanson blanks.

Is there anyone here with a similar set-up?

Thanks!

[Blanksguy]

David,
I would realy like to se photo of that "Guiette" manufatured MG-42 Blank-Adaptor......just to see how it is made. I believe that if it is made like his MG-34 Blank-Adaptor as a part that replacement the Barrel-Bearing and Booster-Cup/"Nozzle" as one-pcs.........I am wondering if their will be any "issues" in the "long-haul" on the MG-42 (?).....and also wondering if it has "Keys" that are on the MG-42 Barrel-Bearing....or just a straight-sleeve formed at the front to act as a Booster-Cup/"Nozzle" (IE: With restriction).
It will still require a "Hotter-Blank" if you want the usual noise.

12thWaffenSS,
I think that you will be able to operate your semi-only on those "Hotter" Blanks....but at the cost that "Joe" charges now (?).....about $50-$55 per 100 plus shipping (?).
An alternative would be myself at:
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
....or Robert-Walters (who I have been helping these last 1-2 years to bring the quality up and change some "loadings" to the same standards and "loadings" that I make my Blanks) owns Atlantic Wall Blanks....and he can be reached at his web-page of:
www.AtlanticWallBlanks.com
....just tell him that RichardS in MI sent you.

As far as trying to use the weaker .308 Austrian Blanks in a semi-only SA-42 or SA-53......they may not be strong enough without a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[12thWaffenSS]

I took my all original C&R MG42 out for a weekend of reenacting. I changed the bolt assy and booster cone out for MG3 parts from Robert RTG in AZ. The 42 ran 100% just as it does with live ammo. The MG3 BFA does not have any vent hole in the front of the unit. I thought that this would be an issue but it was not. I found that if I unscrew the BFA I can slow the rate of fire down. Does anyone here have any experiance with the MG3 BFA's? I am using Joe Swanson's motion picture blanks and they seem to be of high quality.

Are you using the .308 blanks? I have that same type of blank adaptor and it wouldn't work for me. And yes, I have the Swanson 8mm blanks.

[Blanksguy]

12thWaffenSS,
This is what I keep telling reenactors......either way, you will have to spend money $$$. You will either need to pay for a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly at the start............or for the hotter Blanks ($$$$) and a cheaper Blank-Adaptor for the front of your weapon.

The best way is to just spend the money up-front and buy (or have made) a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly.
Reasoning behind my recommendations is that:

1: If you want your MG-42 to look like a WWII German MG-42 in the field (not an MG42 with an MG3 Blank-Adaptor on the muzzle-end......you need the MG-42 Flash-Hider up front.

2: The 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly requires less pressure to operate the system.........so with it, you can use those weak .308 Blanks......."and" because the muzzle-end of the forward barrel-section is Blank-Adapted/Restricted, you can remove the Booster-Cup/"Nozzle".....allowing you more noise out the front and sides of your MG-42/SA-42 with those same weak/"cheaper" Blanks.

3: There is no requirement to make your MG-42 Flash-Hider retaining-clip more narrow at the front for the smaller-notches used on the MG3 Blank-Firing-Adaptor nor the MG3 Flash-Hider.

4: With the added spring requirements of "Hammer-Spring" and the additional "drag" on the hammer during operation in an SA-42 build.....the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly is just a more reliable option.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[12thWaffenSS]

12thWaffenSS,
This is what I keep telling reenactors......either way, you will have to spend money $$$. You will either need to pay for a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly at the start............or for the hotter Blanks ($$$$) and a cheaper Blank-Adaptor for the front of your weapon.

The best way is to just spend the money up-front and buy (or have made) a 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly.
Reasoning behind my recommendations is that:

1: If you want your MG-42 to look like a WWII German MG-42 in the field (not an MG42 with an MG3 Blank-Adaptor on the muzzle-end......you need the MG-42 Flash-Hider up front.

2: The 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly requires less pressure to operate the system.........so with it, you can use those weak .308 Blanks......."and" because the muzzle-end of the forward barrel-section is Blank-Adapted/Restricted, you can remove the Booster-Cup/"Nozzle".....allowing you more noise out the front and sides of your MG-42/SA-42 with those same weak/"cheaper" Blanks.

3: There is no requirement to make your MG-42 Flash-Hider retaining-clip more narrow at the front for the smaller-notches used on the MG3 Blank-Firing-Adaptor nor the MG3 Flash-Hider.

4: With the added spring requirements of "Hammer-Spring" and the additional "drag" on the hammer during operation in an SA-42 build.....the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly is just a more reliable option.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

I have no idea where to buy a 2 piece blank barrel assembly. If you could point me in the right direction, I would be eternally grateful.

I started another thread about this issue that explains in better detail.

Thanks much.

[Blanksguy]

12thWaffenSS,
You have a couple options in locating a 2-pcs. Blanks-Barrel-Assembly:

1: Post a "WTB" (Want-To-Buy) ad on this Board.....and possibly on other Boards where reenactors frequent.
NOTE: Pay particular attention NOT-TO-BUY an incorrectly made 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly....insure that it has the flair at the rear of the longer/forward-section.

2: Make your own (or have it made by a local machine-shop in your area).....I have posted some plans in this thread earlier w/photos.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

[12thWaffenSS]

12thWaffenSS,
You have a couple options in locating a 2-pcs. Blanks-Barrel-Assembly:

1: Post a "WTB" (Want-To-Buy) ad on this Board.....and possibly on other Boards where reenactors frequent.
NOTE: Pay particular attention NOT-TO-BUY an incorrectly made 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly....insure that it has the flair at the rear of the longer/forward-section.

2: Make your own (or have it made by a local machine-shop in your area).....I have posted some plans in this thread earlier w/photos.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

I have Swanson blanks and Atlantic Wall "Green Tip" blanks. I don't think that's the issue. Then again, I could be wrong.

I'll attempt to locate a two-piece blank barrel assembly for sale. I know I don't have the talent to try and machine anything.

Thanks again.