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Blank-Adapting the MG34.

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby MG34Biker » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:55 pm

[quote="Blanksguy"]MG34Biker,
To address the challanges that you are having with your MG-34......I will have to list these as separate issues as listed below.
1: A 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel by nature does not use a Booster-Cup/"Nozzle"......it only requires the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly.

I removed the MG34 booster cone. I tapped the muzzle end of the 2 pc, tried the 0.176" set screw, would get a failure to eject followed by partial chambering the next cartridge.

2: I-O's 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies appear to have a separate piston on the end of the forward barel-section which could be removed if memory serves me correctly (I'm tired today)......but should be left tightly in palace on the muzzle-end of your Blank-Barrel-Assembly.

Separate piston at the muzzle? Dunno. Mine has a larger diameter section at the muzzle end, torqued on balls tight.

The chamber piece floats nicely inside the forward section. I would like to get this running on another set of blanks in case the M69s disappear. Always good to have a Plan B.

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Blanksguy » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:05 am

MG34Biker,
Good to hear from you.

It sounds like you only have a little more clearance than needed.......and the cure for your MG-34 firing but not ejecting fully with "Blanks" is to just drop your BFA Hole-Size/Restriction down to .166" (#19 Drill-Size) and try again.
This should give you a slightly added pressure to make the Bolt go back slightly harder and allow it to hit the "ejector-plate with the ejector-rod on the bolt-head.....allowing the spent-blank to be ejected.

Let me know if this cures your challange.
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

MODERATORS>>>>>>>>> It sure would be nice if I could "EDIT" my mis-spelled words ......and chance of this happening (??????????????????????).

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Blanksguy » Thu May 28, 2009 12:12 pm

Received a couple more of the MG34 2-pcs. Blank-barrel-assemblies back from my machine-shop/machinest........these are chambered in 7.62x51mm/.308 so that you can use the 7.62x51mm/.308 Blanks available from the different vendors now.

I will have these listed down in out F/S-Setion shortly (I type slow).

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby MG34Biker » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:03 am

Any way to run the plastic German NATO blanks thru a 34 reliably, Norweigan Bbl with blank booster cone?
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm? ... dir=18|832
Image

What about the POF L10A2's?
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm? ... dir=18|832
Image

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Blanksguy » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:38 am

MG34Biker,
Yes......using the 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly in 7.62x51mm/.308 caliber. There are a few TNW SA-34s running now on the 7.62x51mm/.308 caliber Blanks.
The 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly requires less pressure to operate once it is properly set up............."and" as the Booster-Cup/"Nozzle" is not required,.... and that it uses less pressure, it allows the front BFA to be opened up allowing more noise.

I am gauging interest in a "second-run" of fitted MG-34 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies now. Interested parties can contact me at my e-mail address listed below. The first run has sold out and is currently being used in the field....reenacting.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
PS: NOTE: Not all of the surplus .308 Blanks for sale on the market are the same......they were made by different Countries for different weapons/systems......not all Countries use the same BFA Hole-Size nor the same weapons. This allowed them to make their own "Blanks" to their own "loadings". This in turn means that you "usually" can not mix Blank on the same belt......and "most-likely" wil be required to test each differnt countries Blanks and readjust your BFA Hole-Size.

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby junglewalk » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:10 am

I must tell you guys who are german re-enactors, that these 2-pc- 308 , mg-34 barrels are as tough and well made as their 60+ yr old 8mm counterparts!
Two of us ordered these 308 barrels for our TNW mg-34s last month....> We also had discovered a new 308 military blank on the market from Greece.....>This Greek blank, (seen above), is a very loud & strong blank, and that's the blank we planned on using in our sa-34s.(for now,while available)
Blanksguy sends 4 plugs with pilot holes, with the 2-pc barrel, that is drilled and threaded....> My friend & I already knew from previous experience, how every different blank one uses, brings with it , its own performance characteristics, and they can not be mixed in together. But with these different plugs, we would be able to make work a range of different blanks, if worked with individually.
We both in the past with the 8mm blanks that we both make, did not use plugs at the end of the German 2-pc barrel, but shorted the recoil spring behind the bolt, realizing that the full length/powerful recoil spring is not needed with using our blanks. (we also replaced the firing/pin spring with the German WWII one, to have a lighter pull of the trigger in our mock-combat in the field.)..> This shortening of the recoil spring may not be for everyone, but it has woked in these guns, and a FA mg-34 also, with blanks only.
**For us, we got our TNW guns to cycle pretty well by ending up with a 7/32 inche hole in the plug, while using these Greek blanks.....>> I did try a handful of Austrian blanks, but realized it would take a different size plug for the gun to cycle properly....> > Have not tried any other 308 blank up to this point.
**** With these newly made 2-pc 308 blank barrels from Bkanksguy, they now give us German WWII re-enactors the ability to step into the 308 blank world, for a greater source of blanks at a cheaper cost, in order to maintain supporting machine gun fire for our units in the field...!.....(thanks Blanksguy!)
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby MG34Biker » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:20 pm

JUngleWalk,
Did you have to modify the feed pawl to feed the Nato blanks reliably?

I was lucky to have my local smith turn a new Nato chamber piece in stainless using an extra MG34 Bbl extension had found last year for replacing the Izzy extensions. I wasn't sure he was going to be able to get to this project so I had to get Nato blanks fast, went with the plastic West Germans because they were the only ones able to be in my hands for an event next weekend. Otherwise, I was going to order the star crimped Greek from Widener's, who are a week behind. I do have some of the weak Hirt blanks to mess around with, too.

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby junglewalk » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:28 am

No, no changing feed paws;;..This Greek blank is good,,,just a little work, and she is doing it..>>>> BUTT,

My friend ordered 5k of the plastic, and is having a hell of a time trying to get them to cycle;;..I threw in with him for half of them too, and we got to get them to function!

http://www.subguns.com/boards/under500.cgi?read=64394

There's the guys url on subgun.com........$30. for 1000, plus shipping.

Maybe I can get my friend on here to tell the problems he's having......bh
Beautiful women are like well built machineguns: Some should just be looked at, and left alone, while others were built to get hot.

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby JohannReinhold » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:56 am

What problems did you have with the plastic blanks, and how did you get them to function? I'm having trouble with them ejecting after firing. I suspect there is not enough pressure to even begin the cycling process. LC blanks work fine so I know its not the gun !

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby MG34Biker » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:59 am

junglewalk wrote:No, no changing feed paws;;..This Greek blank is good,,,just a little work, and she is doing it..>>>> BUTT,

My friend ordered 5k of the plastic, and is having a hell of a time trying to get them to cycle;;..I threw in with him for half of them too, and we got to get them to function!

http://www.subguns.com/boards/under500.cgi?read=64394

There's the guys url on subgun.com........$30. for 1000, plus shipping.

Maybe I can get my friend on here to tell the problems he's having......bh


Those blanks are meant to be used in the G3's as well as the MG3, so why would they not work in your 34?

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby junglewalk » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:29 pm

:( Yes, i feel the same way, butt, my fellow TNW 34 owner is having great difficulty.......He has tried many variables on his first day of working with them, and went thru approx 100 in his first session, with not one time did the bolt recoil, kicking out the empty, and pick up the next round and go into battery. :?
I have never worked with the plastic german 308 blanks myself, but he told me, over the phone, as he was working with them, the cases get crushed very easily in these mishaps... :WTF:
The variables he has tried has been different size holes in the plugs screwed in the end of the 2-pc blank barrel, and various lengths for the recoil spring behind the bolt.
We have another fellow of our unit,(Fritz,on here) who has a Wiselite 42/53, just ordered 10k from the url above, and we are hoping these german plastic 308 blanks wizz right thru his gun...I have a sa 42, that runs well with the Austrian blanks, and am hoping for the best with these plastic ones myself.....>Otherwise I'll have nearly 2500 of them with no way to use them on the WWII battlefield. :puk: ...> Maybe we should have stuck with the Greek!
When I get these plastic 308 blanks, I will see what happens, and come on here to let you guys know.>
We know, there is a way, because my friend was at a battle recently, where a fellow german re-enactor was having reliable performance in his TNW gun with them....My friend did not know if he was using a 2-pc blank barrel, or a live 308 barrel.
Maybe later, my fellow comrad, can get on here in his own words, describe what a time he had....bh
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby FKpt.Fritz » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:47 pm

junglewalk wrote: We have another fellow of our unit,(Fritz,on here) who has a Wiselite 42/53, just ordered 10k from the url above,


mines a rewelded semi auto MG42 (no M53 parts) with Pirate bolt and AR15 FCG......

i will be using a live barrel with the muzzle cone BFAed. will let everyone know who it shoots. i have a few spring lengths ill try it with

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Blanksguy » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:06 pm

What is probably mixing people (readres) up as they read the recent additions to this "thread" is that people are not listing down exact information about their weapon/system, modifications, and what Blanks are being tested....such as:

There are different version of the weapon:
1: MG34 Full-Auto/Select-Fire.
2: SA34 Semi-Only TNW...(?? = are there early and late versions of the firing-mechanism-??).
3: SA34 "Home-Built" (Possibly list down either what type firing-mechanism used.).

There are different Blank-Firing-Systems used:
1: Live-Barrel w/restricted Booster-Cup/"Nozzle". (Cheaper/$$ system to set up...but has limitations as it requires more force to move additional barrel-weight).
2: 2-Pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assembly. (More expensive/$$ to set up initially......."but" is more adjustable to use cheaper/surplus .308 Blanks......this system only has to move the shorter rear-section of the barrel which is less weight).

There are any number of different BFA Hole-Sizes used/tried with the above systems.......what size did you try and what worked (??)......in either Drill-Size or Thousandths-of-an-inck (IE: .152" or #24 Drill-Size).

There are other modification to the feed-tray and/or Top-Cover......what did you use or try (??)......did you use a feed-tray-spacer (?)....and if so, which style or maybe a photo (??).
Also remember that the MG34/SA34 has a weaker feed-mechanism/"lifting" of the belt. Help feed the belt by hand, get the gun closer to the ammo-can, or use an assault-drum.

Blanks **:
1: 8x57mm (??).
2: 7.62x51mm/.308 cal. (??).
3: Who Manufacture the Blanks or were they "surplus" and if so, what country (and possibly what the "Head-Stamp" markings were.).
**NOTE: Not all Blanks of the same caliber have the same loading....even surplus-blanks for different countries are loaded to different standards (amount and type of Powder in them). Do not mix Blanks.

Problems encountered/challanges........(????).
NOTE: You need to take the gun to a "live-firing-range" and insure that it fires live ammo well prior to trying to Blank-Adapt it. Don't take the word of the manufacturer that they "test-fired" the gun.
If you start with a logical sequence of beginning to end.....listing down all of the variables outlined above......and then tell us what it is or is not doing, and everything that you have tried/checked........only then can anyone expect to receive logical help from Board members. Anything else is just a partial-guess as to what will fix/correct it.

Regards, RichardS in MI.
Blanksguy2001@chartermi.net
PS: I am gathering the required barrels/parts for the next short run of MG34/SA34 2-pcs. Blank-Barrel-Assemblies in 7.62x51mm/.308 cal. only. Please contact me at my e-mail address if you want me to put you down on the list to contact when they are ready......which I hope to be able to start shipping around the end of September.

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby junglewalk » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:42 am

Oh yeah, we don't want to mix anyone up on this blank firing activity, this is such a complex thing at times, but this is the proper place to layout the blank firing problems we have, and Blanksguy can examine what we are doing
I won't know until I get my hands on some of those blanks, as what to do;....My friend who has them right now, is pretty compitent mechanically, and the poor performance of these plastic blanks is really fustrating both of us;
Quit possibly, they are more suited for the mg-42 in most cases, so we will see.... :cross:
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Schriv » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:50 am

Junglewalk...how much did you shorten the recoil spring on your TNW-34S??

I am trying to get my 2002 TNW built semi MG-34 to run reliably on Atlantic Wall green tip 8mm blanks.
Using a surplus, two part 8mm barrel with no restriction plug, I can occasionally get 6-8 rounds in a string before I get a failure to fully extract. Most of the time I get single shots with partial extraction. The bolt is always difficult to pull to the rear, and I'm thinking the recoil spring is a bit too stiff for this set-up.
After reading your post, I'm inclined to buy another spring and try your approach.

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby MG34Biker » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:19 pm

A friend is running Atlantic Wall green tips and Swanson blanks thru his TNW-34 by using a standard barrel with the muzzle booster BFA from Allegheny. I don't know why his won't run with the 2piece.

I should have my stainless Nato chamber piece Tuesday, hope to run some plastic thru my dot44 prior to the airshow next weekend. I'm going to try with the Norge Nato 34 barrel/booster BFA then the 2 piece blank bbl with restrictor screws

Schriv wrote:Junglewalk...how much did you shorten the recoil spring on your TNW-34S??

I am trying to get my 2002 TNW built semi MG-34 to run reliably on Atlantic Wall green tip 8mm blanks.
Using a surplus, two part 8mm barrel with no restriction plug, I can occasionally get 6-8 rounds in a string before I get a failure to fully extract. Most of the time I get single shots with partial extraction. The bolt is always difficult to pull to the rear, and I'm thinking the recoil spring is a bit too stiff for this set-up.
After reading your post, I'm inclined to buy another spring and try your approach.

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby junglewalk » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:28 pm

Junglewalk...how much did you shorten the recoil spring on your TNW-34S??

I found, the big time strength of the recoil spring was not needed for the blanks, like is needed for live fire;...> For my 8mm blanks, (13.5gr of Bullseye), in my TNW-34, I use a 13 inch recoil spring:.(2-pc blank barrel)..Butt, that may not be right for your gun!!...a lot of double feeds were caused by an overly strong recoil spring.
Ironically, with a 2-pc blank barrel, 308, and using Greek blanks, I use the same recoil spring. It is just right...Plus the same set-up in my fa-34.
You have to test & experiment to find what is best with your gun....bh
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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby gordie k » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:14 pm

Bob i didnt know you got permision to use the fa34 in the field

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby junglewalk » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:48 am

Gordie, yes, so far for public battles only....> Closed tactical battles, there is no need, with the MG-42sa running so well!......
For you guys who don't know, Gorgie k did my 42, almost 5 yrs ago.... He is such a wizard who knows all the ins and outs of these amazing machines, including the puzzling world of springs!
My MG-42sa has been all over the Russian front, having fired almost 10,000 blanks thru these years....> I could not have done it with out him!!.......(my AG below)

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Re: Blank-Adapting the MG34.

Postby Bil » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:48 pm

Yes,anyone that talks with Gordie should bring a tape recorder,the information comes faster than you can register it! :D He was a big help to me in getting my SA42 up and going-thanks,Gordie! :D ---bil
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