IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

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IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby bbrown » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:27 pm

Many moons ago I got an MG34 dummy gun from IMA. Now I'd like to remove the parts from the solid receiver.

Well, I got everything off except the barrel shroud extension (a dot 1945). It rotates fine to remove the barrel, but no matter how much I rotate it while pressing the other large locking pin it just doesn't unlock from the stud, even rotating it almost 360 degrees. The pin just won't go in far enough to disengage from the interrupted threads on the stud. This documented process works just fine for separating the barrel shroud extension from the stud on my XMG from BRP.

Any suggestions for how to proceed, hopefully without wrecking anything?

Thanks,

Bryan

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Re: IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby www.Prussia.us » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:34 pm

Well I will be Captain Obvious and chime in with he low hanging fruit.

1) Have you contacted IMA and asked if they did something to attach the shroud with the dummy that cannot be readily seen?

2) Have you tried heat? German tolerances were pretty good, but that stud and shroud can make a pretty tight fit, especially it being a dummy receiver, heat, Kroil, and perhaps a little of the science of applied pressure when it is in the position where it should pull out.
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Re: IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby bbrown » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:32 am

Yeah, contacting IMA is on my short list.

I've wiggled and jimmied the pieces many times over the years, always unsuccessfully. I haven't tried applying heat yet, nor have I clamped the things in a vise to work on them. Those are also on my short list.

I'm waiting on a guy over on WeaponsGuild to tell me how he removed the pin itself then put everything back together. However, I haven't found a replacement for the parts for the pin assembly yet, and I don't want to destroy the pin parts to get them separated. [Flashback to the comments about the My Lai massacre many years ago.]

It just seems like a good idea to have a perfectly functional parts kit (sans cut receiver pieces) along with a well-built solid dummy receiver as separate items.

So, anyone here know how to disassemble the pin assembly? Maybe Brian at BRP has the parts.

Thanks for the suggestions,

Bryan

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Re: IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby bbrown » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:11 am

IMA customer service just re-confirmed to me that they're a class act.

In a response to my e-mail enquiry no more than 10 minutes after I sent it, they noted that it's been several years since they had/used any solid aluminum MG34 receivers in their dummy guns, and so there's nobody there to ask for tips. They also confirmed that the dummy receiver and barrel shroud extension should separate just like the original, and that something just isn't lining up. No hijinks were involved.

So, I'll keep fiddling and using the previous suggestions, including copious amounts of penetrating oil.

Gotta love IMA, at least in my experience.

Bryan

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Re: IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby Blanksguy » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm

bbrown,
Is this something that IMA had made up (the "pin" w/interrupted-threads) and pressed onto their 80% receiver (?).....I seem to remember IMA trying to remove those MG34 forward-receiver-pins........and using them on the 80% receiver.
If the receiver end-pin was not aligned correctly......or if IMA ran out of them, possibly they just had solid-pins with heads made up at a local machine-shop.......and then, with the barrel-jacket mounted, just pressed them on/through the opening of the barrel-jacket (?). To check this......does your barrel-jacket move slight "outward" when you rotate it (?).

Does the end of the pin have a machined-recess in the end of it (used to mate with the pin-location on the MG34 Lafette ).....(?). Photo of the pin end might confirm what you have for us (?).
At that point, a call to "Christian" may or may not get you the information that you need as this may have been "out-sourced" to a machine-shop local to him (?).

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Re: IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby bbrown » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:35 pm

Yes, the barrel jacket rotates outward when the receiver is rotated. The end of the large pin on the receiver has a depression milled into the end. Here are some pictures, first of the end of the pin on both the IMA dummy gun and a working BRP S/A XMG, and then of the dummy receiver as it rotates.
Attachments
pins_end3.jpg
phase1.jpg
phase2.jpg
phase3.jpg
phase4.jpg
phase5.jpg
phase6.jpg

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Re: IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby Blanksguy » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:57 pm

bbrown,
In the first photo.....is that the take-down-pin protruding that far down on the IMA-Display-34 (?).

To me (and I may be mistaken) it looks like the receiver-pin was made using a drill-bit on the end to make the tripod-pin-recess and not "flat-bottomed" like the BRP receiver-pin........ and the last MG34 C&R gun that I had.

The receiver-takedown-pin-assembly appears to be a long-machined-pin, inserted from the top with spring and sleeve attached from the underside.......I do not see "threads", but photos are old/bad-views......you may be able to "unscrew" the small-sleeve from the bottom (?).....I don't see a keeper-pin of any sort on the drawings in the book.

If the receiver-pin (where the barrel-jacket rotates) was pressed into the front of the receiver, they (IMA) may have a set-pin or keeper-pin to retain it (?).....you have to look to see what IMA built up on this.......

At this point, unless you have other clear photos of the pin-parts/spring from Folkes MG34 and MG42 Book to see what parts/spring you may need to be removed, you need to talk with "Christian" at IMA........or possibly one of his "workers".

Regards, RichardS
US Army, Retired.
Blanksguy2001@outlook.com

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Re: IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby anjongni » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:00 pm

Bryan, Somehow I missed your post. Surely you've resolved this by now.
If not....
...I have the same IMA receiver. The pivot pin is part of the receiver casting. The retention slot in the IMA pin is cut all the way around. The button is probably hanging up on the sharp edge of the retention groove in the pin.
Unlike the original German receiver pin, the barrel shroud installed on an IMA receiver will come off the pin at ANY point after the button is pushed. The original German receiver allows removal of the shroud after pushing the button ONLY when the shroud is fully "pivoted open".

With the receiver/shroud "closed", I would insert a strong wooden dowel into the barrel shroud up to the receiver, and, while holding the button down, tappetty-tap on the dowel, knocking the receiver off the shroud.
Best of luck...Phil

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Re: IMA dummy gun barrel shroud extension removal

Postby bbrown » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:40 am

anjongni wrote:Bryan, Somehow I missed your post. Surely you've resolved this by now.
If not....
...I have the same IMA receiver. The pivot pin is part of the receiver casting. The retention slot in the IMA pin is cut all the way around. The button is probably hanging up on the sharp edge of the retention groove in the pin.
Unlike the original German receiver pin, the barrel shroud installed on an IMA receiver will come off the pin at ANY point after the button is pushed. The original German receiver allows removal of the shroud after pushing the button ONLY when the shroud is fully "pivoted open".

With the receiver/shroud "closed", I would insert a strong wooden dowel into the barrel shroud up to the receiver, and, while holding the button down, tappetty-tap on the dowel, knocking the receiver off the shroud.
Best of luck...Phil


Phil,

thanks for the suggestion. The issue remains unresolved. Unlike yours, the pivot pin on my dummy receiver looks to be either screwed or pressed into the dummy receiver and is not part of the casting.

On my dummy receiver, when when the shroud/receiver is "closed", a rim on the shroud goes into a "notched" area on the receiver which prevents the two from accidentally from coming apart. You have to unlock the shroud from the receiver and rotate the receiver until the rim is out of the "notch", just like on a real MG34. You can see it in the above pictures.

Anyway, I tried your suggestion with the receiver rotated out of the "notch" by varying amounts, tapping/banging with a too-small-diameter dowel, and nothing gave way. I'll get a larger diameter dowel to try again. I really need a third hand to do all this well.

Bryan


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