Out of control?

[j.bal]

Is it me or is this just out of control? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=76604847

[msg1956]

j.bahl

I have been saying this for a couple of years. Sites like E-bay and Gunbroker are great because you find all kinds of stuff you wouldn't normally find (at least you used to). However, one knucklehead with more money than brains, just has to have something and bids the price thru the roof. Than everyone now takes that pie in the sky price as the new "market price". I know, it is just supply and demand, but soon noone will be able to afford to buy anything! But if you look around, you will see we have already reached that point!

[Bil]

$930!?Man,that IS crazy-not even any receiver parts!Earlier this year,I bought one for someone here that had to have one right away.It was a little over $800 with shipping.I thought it was high,but still within reason-the top end of reason.I guess I shouldn't be surprised,these aren't as easy to come by as the 42/53,and good ones aren't as easy to find.I am glad I stocked up when they were relatively realistic.Just think if the buyer wants to make this into a SA-add$$$ for either a TNW receiver or a re-weld,then the SA mods,they add the high price of 8MM,you are talking a lot of bucks just to get started.And I thought I got into the game late! ---bil

[JBaum]

Sounds like what the full-auto crowd has been saying for the last 7 years.... most of what I own I can't afford to buy at today's prices.

[biochembri]

Well I dont think this is entirely supply and demand. I believe normal supply and demand economics reguires a free market. The real problem is strong government regulation as we all know. These prices are being driven by increased demand as more people seek to purchase these items and the government is becoming more restrictive (although I dont know what else they can do other than complete bans and confiscation which seems to be the next step). If the government didnt have import restrictions and manufacture restrictions then this would not be a problem. There are repros of MP38's and MP44's in Germany but we can get them. So prices remain high.

Brian

[smoggle]

Just look at what people are asking for Angola 42 receivers now. Yeah they were cheap before but they dried up. People will pay what they can afford. And, yes it screws it up for the others. The full auto crowd can't buy the spare parts now but most of us can't afford a full auto now. Imagine what the people who bought a full auto in the last ten years would say if they, by some stroke of divine intervention, made full auto guns unregulated or even lifted Reagans 86 ban on manufacture. They would be up in arms.

Good for the guy who sold the kit. And what is that sellers address? I'd like to sell him some stuff too!

[Bil]

Smoggle-got anything good?? ---bil

[smoggle]

An ice cold beer in my hand!

[Bil]

---bil

[Artie in Miami]

I wonder if the MG34 semi auto being built will have the same effect as it did on BAR parts. Three shows ago at knob creek, I picked up a BAR parts kit for $200...now they are sky high, and nobody at the creek has any spare BAR parts. Everyone I asked said " Bob Landis from Ohio Ord bought up all my parts for his semi auto project". I heard that TNW bought up all of IMA's MG34 parts...this may create the same problem...no parts available and sky high prices on those that are around. It may have already started !

artie in miami

[FKpt.Fritz]

i bought a mg42 kit 2 months after them ban which nice torched reciever for $600 form IO. sold it 3 months later for $1200 wish i would of kept it. i also just sold a dummy 34 for $1500. prices are going up i cant afford anything anymore. just last year sportsmans guid had mg34s for $350. and numrich gun parts was give suomis away for $5 extra bucks wich purchse of 2 parts kits. thats all gone. looks like im back to buying bolt actions. thanks ATF

[JBaum]

It isn't all ATF's fault.... there are only so many 60 year old guns available to make into parts kits. When they're gone, they're gone. I'm sure the Russians and Czechs would be happy to sell more, they just don't have them.

[Roscoeturner]

Well said John. It should also be noted that there was not a shortage until the craze to build semi autos out these took off. Before they were mostly a parts source for full auto weapons as ATF had intended them to be. If you want to blame anyone for a shortage, blame those that started the move to make semi autos out of them.

[762x51]

<SNIP>It isn't all ATF's fault.... <SNIP>

Well, actually probably 90% of the problem is and most of it came from one source - A guy named Sterling Nixon -

This guy was the Tech. Branch Chief for a number of years and he actually told me in the summer of 2003 that his goal was to ban the importation of parts kits because he saw no need for the average individual to have them. He hated the fact that guys like Brian at BRP, Len at Historic Arms, and others were taking kits, re-welding the receivers, and making semi's out of them.

So, his first order of business - change the receiver demil cut specification to try and make the receivers useless for use in rebuilding the receivers. Another ploy was to change the demil spec AFTER the kits had been imported and sold then go to the vendors and make them recall the kits or charge them with importation of machine guns. Remember the Interordnance FAL fiasco or the Cole's UZIs, or the MAXIM side plate issue, and don't forget the most recent - The CZ-26 recall. There are just a few of the horror stories like this.

There is a funny little issue regarding the MAXIM sideplates - Remember when ATF said that all of the kits that were imported with only the right side plate removed were contraband and had to be surrendered to the ATF when they came a-calling? Loads of kits were turned over to local ATF agents when all that was contraband (at the time) was the left sideplate. What they didn't tell you was that if you removed the sideplate then you could keep the remainder of the kit.

Then I wrote Tech Branch a letter asking which sideplate was the registered part of the MAXIM - Guess what?? They sent me a letter saying it was the RIGHT sideplate and you could legally own the LEFT sideplate. Keystone Cops at their best... Want to read the letter? here it is:

Page 1: http://www.1919a4.com/batf/images/Vicke ... te.001.jpg
Page 2: http://www.1919a4.com/batf/images/Vicke ... te.002.jpg

Anyway, when destroying the receivers as much as they could didn't have the desired effect, ATF (not proven but you can bet our buddy Sterling had a hand in it) gave us the barrel ban. So now we have kits that have useless receivers and no barrels or barrels that have had holes drilled in the chamber, center, and muzzle.

Another thing that our buddy did for us was get the ATF's lawyers involved with classification letters. Tech Branch now has a policy that requires EVERY letter written by Tech Branch to be reviewed by the ATF's legal department. This is why some letters to them now take months and sometimes years to be answered. For example, I wrote a letter to them on September 8, 2006 and am still waiting for an answer.

The other 10% of the problem is with the UN - They will pay a country "X" number of dollars for every military firearm that they destroy. This is why thousands of STg-58 (FAL's) were destroyed by Austria and L1A1's (again FAL's) by Australia. Any number of historic military weapons have been destroyed under this program. The UN places a lot of pressure on these countries to participate in these programs and sometimes they will pay more than the importers are willing to pay for a demilled kit. Remember when you could buy a G-1 FAL kit for $99 from TAPCO? Thanks to the UN these same kits now sell for $250 and up.

These are just a few highlights of the problems we now have getting affordable kits and why the supply of them is drying up. No one will ever know all of the story, the hidden agendas that some folks at ATF and other government agencies have, or the back door deals that our government has made with the UN regarding this issue. Add to this the current makeup of Congress and you can bet that it's going to get worse, not better.

In closing let me say this - There are a lot of very good folks at Tech Branch and some of them have been VERY helpful. We are lucky that Mr. Nixon is no longer at Tech Branch and lets hope that his replacement will be a more reasoned individual. Only time will tell.......

As always, this information is worth exactly what you paid for it -

Regards,
Orin

[Dan@AngolaArmory]

Guys,
Orin's post above is 100% correct, the absolute truth. He and I have discussed the manner in which the industry is being "girdled" for collapse and have shared many first-hand experiences.
Look at these days fondly, they truely will be remembered as the "good 'ole days" in the near future.
Sadly,
Dan

[flemgunner]

well.........poop

[Bil]

Cheer up-things could be worse! ....and probably will be. oh poop from me too. ---bil

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

BARTENDER BIL ! I'll take a triple poop. And get a double poop for my buddy TC here !

[Bil]

Done! Tracking number 546-78654-0987 Should be there in about a week-enjoy! ---bil