what color is correct for 1917 mg08 sled and gun?

[IMBLITZVT]

David, You seem to confirm what I have been thinking. Early war was red primed with a Grayer (sometimes almost with a blue tint) and then late war, they stopped priming them and went to more of a green gray.

Mark, How can you tell your color is primer and not just the paint? From my understanding the paint was made with white lead and the primer from Red Lead. Of course there is nothing to say you have to leave it red so they probably just started mixing gray and green into it and just made it a single coat operation.

Does anyone know how they were painted? Brush? Doesn't seem like it as I would expect to see build up in the corners.

Mark, If I was you, I would not stress the color to much. Since you already have a color, just copy that as best as possible and go with it. God only knows but that would be the best way to restore the paint IMHO. Can you even get lead paint over there? If not I really would not stress it as the paint will not be the same even if you had 100% perfect match.

[IMBLITZVT]

The color I want to copy is the one on what I think is the flash light/lamb at the top left. Its kind of a Gray with a very little blue tint to it. I think thats the early style paint.

If really goes more green in late 1917 and 1918 as far as I can tell. So Mark, if your sled is dated then, go with the more green like the bottom of your sled.

[dwmmg08]

David, Excellent post!

I have seen the same variation, I would only note that original belt buckles all seem to be greyer than the helmets, but there is no "one" color of feldgrau, its more of a range of color.

I believe this is partly due to the nature of paint back then; there were very few shelf stable colors. Most colors were mixed at the job site from a selection of those shelf stable colors, according to a "recipe" for the color you wanted to get. Feldgrau appears to be one of those paints that was mixed at the front.

At the factory, they probably got pre-mixed paint straight from the factory, as that was probably right there _in_ the factory too; therefore stuff straight from the factory should be more uniform, at least to like pieces of the same lot.

At the front, every time Hermann repainted the cannon, he was probably mixing the paint; therefore, it probably came out a little different every time.

Incidentally, I have somewhere, an order from a Bavarian division ordering helmets to be painted camoflage "in the same pattern currently in use on MG's and Artillery" and setting out the colors; Ochre, Black, etc. I'll have to find it, as I went and got those exact colors. My suspicion was as to why they would have those exact colors available at the front where-ever painting was being done. Interestingly enough, if you mix those exact paints in the right proportion, you get a perfect WWI German Feldgrau. That also explains why the cannons, MGs etcetera were painted in those camo colors first; they just didn't mix them all up, they used them individually- probably along with some mixed into feldgrau for an extra color.

Glen

[cobra]

Why don,t you just paint the darn thing and get it over with. This has been going on for too long. After all after 25 years who will be able to tell the difference. We didn,t take a tenth of the time to paint our Focke Wulf 190. Do something else for God,s sake. COBRA

[IMBLITZVT]

Incidentally, I have somewhere, an order from a Bavarian division ordering helmets to be painted camoflage "in the same pattern currently in use on MG's and Artillery" and setting out the colors; Ochre, Black, etc. I'll have to find it, ...

Glen, Yeah please let us know if you do! That would be helpful. Now to just see if I can come up with lead paint.

Cobra, take it easy, there are many other threads if the Paint is starting to bore you. WWII colors are pretty much known and not hard to come up with.

[cobra]

BORE me??? Yes,I just think that you should get a job. It,s not that big of a thing to paint a darn gun. There were hundreds of different paint jobs done on the 08,s JUST PICK ONE. You fill up this forum with the same subject and there have been plenty of answers to your SMALL problem. Pick one and get on with it. There are other members that have more interesting subjects than paint. Your next problem will be,Should I put a different stain on the wood parts, and it will go on and on. COBRA

[IMBLITZVT]

Cobra, I think you should pick a shade for him! Whats your favorite? Maybe I will paint mine in honor of you too and choose the same shade. So do you like green or green-gray or Gray or Gray with blue tint?

Oh and do you have a suggestion for what stain we should use? I was thinking Golden Oak but I don't know if they had the stain back then. You are correct, that is a completely different topic that probably should get its own thread! We really must look into what stain to use before we paint it, after all some paint may get scrapped off and expose it!

Obviously I have been kidding but I have come to the point where I will probably just match a color off a picture that I print off the computer. The hard part for me is not having an original piece in this color (Gray for me) makes it harder to match. I am also interested it using with lead paint but I just don't think that will happen as I can't find any. At some point, you are correct, you simply must just choose one as no one has a correct color for you.

[Bil]

Just throw some mud all over it-the conditions were pretty primitive back then.Now see what you have done-drawn me into this and I don't even have an 08 yet! ---bil

[jmann]

I understand about wanting to be as exact as possible. The germans have always faced the problem in war of changing and simplifying things as the war would go against them. I really believe on a maxim and sled any color close to green gray would have a difficult time being disputed as wrong. I would however avoid painting the waterjacket and sled the exact same shade if you are looking for authentic appearance. A real purist would paint the sled and gun two different shades of green-green and then coat both with a brushed on coat of the same green-gray. That way all bases are covered. The real point here is "repaint". Thus the original paint and the monetary value of it are gone at this point. It does not matter if it is krylon, red lead, white lead, or elf cum, it is new paint and it is not goint to add one cent to the value of the piece. It can therefore be removed without detracting one cent from the same item and repainted at a later date to a different color if history turns up something new. Hell I painted mine camo with cans of benjamin moore, and it has been quite fun. I can strip it and paint it fieldgray anytime I get tired and want it to look like any of the other maxims out there.
Even if you could find a can of ww1 german paint and apply it to the gun with the same tool Hanz used in 1917, it would still be a repaint, and worth no more than one in the same condition coated with a spray can from kmart. Point is, paint it the color you like most as it is your gun, and you will be the one playing with it. If it is a live gun and you plan to shoot it, the light colors get dirty very quickly. If it is a dead gun then carbon and soot wont be a problem. Either way just enjoy. Something as easily removable as paint is not a big deal. Just dont use a modern type of gun paint that requires blasting to remove, and remember most collectors will pay far more for an item with 10% original paint left on it than for the same item repainted.
Good Luck

[MarkFinneran]

May I get 3 tins of elf cum please?

I am pleased we are all different and have different views - and actually I am as guilty as anyone speaking about types of paint, but, this thread is afterall on 'painting' and therefore legitimately may drone on and on about paint types? I am fully aware of the member expertise here and therefore it is foolish not to exploit and exhaust such knowledge.

As for my project I have begun painting with my 'scientific' paint and she looks magnificent .
Happy New Year everybody.

Mark

[jmann]

Mark,
Elf cum now requires proper export paperwork and you must be a licensed explosives expert to handle it. Rumor is Iran is trying to stockpile it also.

I hope you did not take what I was saying as negative toward you. My point was from a monetary standpoint you are not going to harm or increase the value of the gun regardless of the paint you use, so use what you like. If you get tired of the color or it turns out to not look like what you wanted it is easy enough to remove and re apply. When working for yourself, time costs nothing. Hell, the maxim is nothing more than a dress up doll for grown men. Changing its paint and accessories is half the fun.
Well I wouldn’t say half, but then again I can shoot mine.
Ok, now.

[alpencorps]

a Find in a MG Instruction Book D.V.E 367
printet Berlin 1915
The receipt to mix fieldgrey paint.

[dwmmg08]

Fantastic! I have long suspected and said that the reason there is so much slight variation in feldgrau helmets, sleds, and other equipment is that it was repainted, and the color was mixed in the field - it was not really possible at the time to make many colors that were shelf-stable, and according to everyone I talked to in the paint field, it was the norm to mix the paint at the job site to match the color desired- hence my thought that not every bored soldat on painting detail would have mixed it exactly the same every time.

Now for a translation! I tried mixing the list of paints found in a 1918 order I had stating which colors were to be used to do the camouflage gun mounts, etc. The colors when mixed in the right proportions came out to …. feldgrau. I suspect these are the same, but I can't find that order at the moment.

Great job!!!!