www.MG42.us

Matt I am no expert, but i have seen enough of museum items do know that all sorts of things were painted, including the trommels and muzzle assemblies. However the one of Eric's - he has two in camouflage has benefitted of some re-work painting. It is too perfect although he showed me its original colour scheme photo and it is not that different . Here are some more views.

Here is a close up of my battle damaged gun.
Just remembered Matt did you see my email on those drag straps? Did you buy them???

Mark,

Thats interesting. I guess I need to keep my eye out because I have never seen these items painted. I have seen the whole thing painted black but thats it. Good shell damage there. Not much point of filling that jacket! He needed the jacket armor!

Matt

OK,
How about a Belt loader of all belt loaders.....the GFV 64 system. It consists of a loader based on the Guertfueller 34 with a series of adapters to load a variety of belts and also to load AK magazines, a feed chute that can be replaced with a rotary drum(s) to load bulk and also do various ratio's of specialty ammo. The drums come in two different sizes to allow use with either 7.62X39 for the RPD belts and AK mags or drum 2 for 7.62X54R in PK belts or 7.92X57 in MG42 belts. The drums have a chain drive to the loader and allow you to dump about 200rds of 7.62X39 in at a time or 100rds of 54R or 8mm. I have some basic pictures of the units in the cans right now, I'll get some action photos up soon. These units were designed and built by the East Germans in the 60's to allow loading of pretty much all the belts and mags in use at the time. While the East Germans were on the wrong side of the wall (from our point of view) they were no less German and the loader proves that.....

Here are some pics.

MarkFinneran wrote:Matt I am no expert, but i have seen enough of museum items do know that all sorts of things were painted, including the trommels and muzzle assemblies. However the one of Eric's - he has two in camouflage has benefitted of some re-work painting. It is too perfect although he showed me its original colour scheme photo and it is not that different . Here are some more views.

Very cool pictures Mark!!! Never seen that kind of camo before, but I'll stop short of saying that it wasn't done! I will say though, that having shot these things a lot, and collected them for a long time, there is NO way I can see that painting the booster is a good idea. That thing gets really hot firing, and I can't imagine paint would last long at all on that thing in any use. Carbon build up, yes, paint, no. Now I have seen a few of the fusee covers painted, (my 08 for one) but never a feedblock! that's different, I can't imagine that the paint would last very long there either, but it would last a lot longer there than on the booster!

I really have never seen the booster's painted, either as relics or in use, until that gun.

Sure made me look twice!!! Neat photo's keep them coming!



Glen

Mark, I have to say I am a little skeptical on these Paintjobs. Can you post some "before" pictures of these? I mean it would be awesome to see these paint jobs in historical photos as they are really cool looking.

This kind of reminds me of a LMG08/15 I saw. The only way I was able to pretty much prove it was not correct was that the cocking lever arm was not put in the correct spot. Otherwise there was no way to prove it was not a Converted MG08/15 kit made to look like a LMG. They even wrote "LUFT" above the MG08/15 markings on the top cover.

Also whats the deal on that MG08. The colors look much more like the Russian green and a painted feedblock?

Frank, that is a damn cool loader!

Glen/Matt there is no doubt this 08/15 of his has had touch up paintwork. And yes it is in pristine condition - and yes too good but the photos Eric showed me of the original state are not that different, with definately paint markings on the flash hider, although not as strong as on the body.
On pg 2 of this thread there is one of David's postcards or photos that show camouflage on part of the 08/15 muzzle assembly.
So I can only assume that 'maybe' some were indeed painted in such a fashion, feedblock and muzzle, but I do see your logic on heat and paint flaking.
It is not my gun (yet ) so I cannot push Eric too far. Fortunately I am his 'computer' guru so I will endeavour to photo some more. He has asked me to do an inventory on his collection so there will be many more photos of kit that I need your help identifying.
His MG08 in that green came from Belgian Army surplus and has been untouched he says for 47 years since he collected it! The anti tank bipod is a darker green and usually sits on his mauser AT rifle.
Mark

Hi Mark,

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that I'm not buying off on that paint job, it looks too current to me. Davids 08's paint job I'm sure is real, as it's the colors that were available to paint at the time, and is just a different "artistic expression" if you will of the camo idea. Whoever did it got a little more carried away than most painters, and went to town on some parts of the gun that you don't normally see painted, like the receiver, but I'm sure it's the real thing. On the other hand, Eric's MG08/15 with the 1990's looking paint on the gun and the drum, in very different colors, just looks wrong to me on a lot of levels, but since this isn't a popularity of the paint job contest, my opinion really doesn't matter, of course!

On the booster, though, I did go back and look at David's posts on page 2, and beg to differ, I don't think any show the booster assembly painted, there's one that appears to, but I studied it pretty hard, and I don't think it does, I think it's a trick of the light. I really seriously have never ever seen one of those painted. I just don't see how that would work in use, but now you've got me curious. Those things get really really freaking hot, btw, and especially the 08/15 type come unscrewed (all over) as you're shooting: when I got my MG34, and found out they made that nifty little detent assembly to keep the freaking booster from coming unscrewed as you're firing, it was like a revelation, they had the same problems! It really helps to keep the wrenches or a big rag handy to tighten it up every 500 rounds or so otherwise. Of course, the practice of dropping your used (hot?) booster into the kerosene soaking can prior to working on cleaning it with brushes I would have expected to effect any paint job as well!

I'm with Matt on the colors on the 08, but as that's Belgian army paint, I shouldn't malign it further by saying it looked very very modern Russian to me too! I was surprised at the Bipod, every one of the anti-tank type bipods I've seen so far have been black, but I couldn't begin to tell you why that is; just all the ones that I was pretty sure were original have been painted black with the same black paint.
thanks again for the great pics mark!!! wow! Keep them coming!

Glen no problem. I welcome all opinions in my efforts to be educated! In a way the more correspondence to show that these are post period paint jobs (anytime between 1918 and 2009!) the better as I am building up to put a bid in on all these items. Not being original paint should reduce the asking price
If successful I will really really inspect closely but as at the moment they are not mine I cannot be too pushy. Of course there is always the option to strip all paint and see what lies beneath and then if necessary if metal is too tired re-blue in original fashion.
We shall see, but all comments appreciated and it gets everybody thinking. Maybe David can show us some more period images and add to the debate. In the meantime what I do need is clear direction on what was WWI German Field Grey.
Regards
Mark

my last find,

Dustcover for MG 08/15
come from a friend,
paint loocks original, also the surface, little rust,

the bad thing: he cleans the Cover with Steel Whool :-((
the good one: does cost nothing.

Greetings
Alpencorps

That's neat!!! And free on top of that!

It looks great! Congrats!

That is awesome! I would love a rain cover!

I just missed a 1935 Leather Lock case. You know the one for a belt... $220 but it was already sold! Damn it!!!

Matt it wasn't me who bought it!! I am constantly missing out on pieces - so annoying that my wife, family and work get in the way!!

Will post some pics soon of collection update now that I have purchased some of Eric's collection. Still need help with some id'ing pieces but period paint is superb. And there is the feedblock/lock number exercise to complete.

Best wishes to all - the forum has been a little quiet recently.
Mark

Just finished re-reading Ernst Junger's classic-Storm of Steel [In Stahlgewittern]. He relates how when the Germans were forced to withdraw quickly and could not take the MGs,they would remove the locks and take them with them.That way the guns were useless if captured,but if they re-took the position,they could use the guns.I am wondering if this could account for so many missing locks,or mis-matched numbers? Just a thought. ---bil

Bil wrote:I am wondering if this could account for so many missing locks,or mis-matched numbers? Just a thought. ---bil

Bil,
I am sure that accounts for some but I think most were removed in the demil process post WWI. After WWI the US Government and a several thousand of these guns and thought about converting them to 30-06 and using them. They decided against that and so they snapped off the lower feedblock arm, removed the locks and mailed them to war supporters, VFWs and pretty much any one that wanted one. If you have not had a chance to read "The Devils Paintbrush" by Goldsmith, it is very well done and very interesting. I have read it cover to cover and certain chapters probably 10-20 times! It tells a lot of the WWI era MG history.

I have Storm of Steel too, and love that book!!!!

I have to wonder if the statement about the locks wasn't a translation error. The standard practice, as I understand it, was to pull the feedblock, and take it with you. There's two more locks on the sled, after all, and while the lock would work, I have always read the Feedblock, and you could either keep it, or as in one account I read, he just threw it as he was running for his life.

The locks are mismatched or missing on so many US guns because of the demil process after WWI. which included removing the locks, and I think the dewat process of the 50s also had them remove the locks. The 1919 demil plan also had them breaking the lower feed arm on the feedblock, which is very common to see. I'm not sure the 1950s regs required that, but they did require welding the rails, as I understand it, which is occasionally seen. Of course, welding the barrel was included in the 1950's as well, but was not done in 1919. Incidentally, for some years, you could buy the locks from Interarms that were removed from the dewats they imported!

The Devil's Paintbrush is awesome! It's wonderful fun to read. The troubleshooting tips are worth the whole book!

Hey, just read Matts post, the conversion program was quite large, possibly even 16,000 guns, but then all shelved, so they're still here. Incidentally, there is a good recent article in Man At Arms magazine about the war souvenier give away program after WWI, that mentions (an additional?) 8,000 + MG08s & MG08/15's being given away by that program circa 1925 or so. That program was also quite big, with tens of thousands of Gew 98's, Lugers, and even Mannlicher 95's, Pickelhaubes, and Belt Buckles being handed out. Every state was supposed to get even an Anti-Tank rifle! I wonder where all that stuff is now?

IMBLITZVT wrote:That is awesome! I would love a rain cover!

I just missed a 1935 Leather Lock case. You know the one for a belt... $220 but it was already sold! Damn it!!!

I tried to buy that too, I think, but he wouldn't even write me back. I would love to have one, so that we could copy it!

Glen

I would look in Roccos workshop,he has everything else in there! Jungers book was translated several times,I have the latest that points out the previous errors,but there are always some that slip by,especially if you are not up on the nomenclature of a particular weapon.Just ask John Baum! Storm of Steel also had many 'updates',it was rewritten by Junger several times.Somewhere I have it in the earlier German version,I will try to fish it up when I get home. ---bil