That's a good point. I just got back from e-parts. Damn turbo, that was a lot of typing. Gun-parts has a better price. $24.95 Better than $80 and with money to spare to buy a new feed tray. I guess I'll have to order a belt and can from Numrich. Heh, heh. This is beginning to look like a plan.
BTW, I think Prexis is making an 80% receiver for the UK59. The UK59m must be a fairly scarce item. I can't find it in any of my reference books. I wonder how good it was.
Now leave me alone. I've got violin practice.
i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53
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propos
Well, I received my UK59 belt and can today. The spacing between the 8mm and 7.62x54 cartridges is the same. The UK59 belt is very close in construction to the MG42 belt. I was playing around with the belt and some Russki rounds and my .308 top cover. I think this will work. The coils on the UK59 belt will fit between the larger feed pawl. The belt lays in the feed pawls just about like a MG42. I think that if you open up the radius on the feed pawls to accept the larger 7.62x54R cartridge the belt will work in the MG42 top cover. The feed tray will have to be lengthened to hold the longer Russian round and opened up to allow the round to slide down the feed tray and into the chamber.
If the UK59 feeds the cartridge straight into the chamber like the MG42 then I believe we can get these belts to work in the gun.
With some work, we might have an SA42 in 7.62x54R. Then all you hoarders can snap up the remaining millions of rounds of 7.62x54R and all of the UK59 belts.
If the UK59 feeds the cartridge straight into the chamber like the MG42 then I believe we can get these belts to work in the gun.
With some work, we might have an SA42 in 7.62x54R. Then all you hoarders can snap up the remaining millions of rounds of 7.62x54R and all of the UK59 belts.
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turbothis
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propos
No, I haven't tried the 8mm tray yet. Ill have to do that. Ok, turbo, I got up off my lazy butt and walked over to the gun cabinet and unlocked it and retrieved the beast. The belt and cartridges will fit into the tray. However, there is about a 1/4" of play whereas with the 8mm the cartridges don't have any front and back movement to speak of. Also the cartridge stop will have to be shortened at the rear. The belt links are too long to pass in back of the stop after the cartridge is chambered. Which is what I expected. Same situation with the .308 tray.
Ah, but wonder of wonders, the top cover will close on the belt. It seems that with the proper modification to the feed tray and feed pawls we will have a winner here.
So what I'm looking at is modifying a .308 feed tray to accept 7.62x54R cartridges by lengthening it in the rear and shortening the rear of the cartridge stop and opening the slot in the tray to allow a 7.62x54r to be fed into the chamber. Reconfiguring the feed pawls and possibly the cartridge guide also.
Oh, and the belt ejection port of the top cover is wide enough for the empty links to feed out of the top cover. So it looks like the top cover won't have to be fooled with.
Next object is a barrel. I forgot that the bore dia. of the Russian round is usually .310 or there abouts. The 7.62x51 Nato is .308. Some what of a pressure problem there. I'm going to see if someone makes barrel blanks in the proper OD and .310 bore which is what is needed to make a 7.62x54R MG-42 barrel.
I really think that this build is possible. We just have to get all of our ducks in a row.
I will try to get some pictures posted this weekend. Stay tuned for more 7.62x54R madness.
Ah, but wonder of wonders, the top cover will close on the belt. It seems that with the proper modification to the feed tray and feed pawls we will have a winner here.
So what I'm looking at is modifying a .308 feed tray to accept 7.62x54R cartridges by lengthening it in the rear and shortening the rear of the cartridge stop and opening the slot in the tray to allow a 7.62x54r to be fed into the chamber. Reconfiguring the feed pawls and possibly the cartridge guide also.
Oh, and the belt ejection port of the top cover is wide enough for the empty links to feed out of the top cover. So it looks like the top cover won't have to be fooled with.
Next object is a barrel. I forgot that the bore dia. of the Russian round is usually .310 or there abouts. The 7.62x51 Nato is .308. Some what of a pressure problem there. I'm going to see if someone makes barrel blanks in the proper OD and .310 bore which is what is needed to make a 7.62x54R MG-42 barrel.
I really think that this build is possible. We just have to get all of our ducks in a row.
I will try to get some pictures posted this weekend. Stay tuned for more 7.62x54R madness.
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FAL_specialist
The MG1 feed tray is basically a 8mm feedtray that has a spacer gate welded in to fit 7.62.
I don't think the tray needs lengthened.
I agree on this, take a std 8mm tray, weld a spacer on the front for the 7.62 x54, then pop the empty link support piece out and either move it forward or shorten it?
I'll study into it myself tomorrow if time permits. I might make one up and offer it for sale if anybody is interested. Basic used M53 feedtray + labor and shipping.
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MG1 7.62 feedtray pictured
I don't think the tray needs lengthened.
I agree on this, take a std 8mm tray, weld a spacer on the front for the 7.62 x54, then pop the empty link support piece out and either move it forward or shorten it?
I'll study into it myself tomorrow if time permits. I might make one up and offer it for sale if anybody is interested. Basic used M53 feedtray + labor and shipping.
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MG1 7.62 feedtray pictured
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Last edited by FAL_specialist on Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FAL_specialist
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propos
Well guys, this is the beginning of the R&D phase of this build. If enough of us work on this we will get it done. I'm thinking of contacting the museum in Finland where they have the example of a 7.62x54R MG-42. Who knows, they might be able to provide some specs on the tray and feed parts. Anyway it's worth a try.
I contacted hgosnell about the possibilty of making a barrel in 7.62x54R. I haven't heard anything from him yet. He was making the new MG-42 barrels in 8mm and .308. I don't know if he still does. But where there is a will there is a way. If the Finns can do it, so can we.
I contacted hgosnell about the possibilty of making a barrel in 7.62x54R. I haven't heard anything from him yet. He was making the new MG-42 barrels in 8mm and .308. I don't know if he still does. But where there is a will there is a way. If the Finns can do it, so can we.
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turbothis
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propos
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turbothis
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propos
JUst by looking at it , it appears to attach the same way a Gurt trommel does. Not having one of those myself, I can only hazard a guess. but it would appear that it will work.
BTW, I contacted "sotamuseo" via e-mail and asked if they could provide any information or specs on the 7.62x54r conversion. That is the Finnish military museum in Finnland where the only known specimen is kept. We'll see if we get any kind of reply.
I will take some pics and try to get them posted tomorrow.
I'll have to do some tinsmithing on the UK59 can. It is bent somewhat at the latch end. But it can be straightened.
BTW, I contacted "sotamuseo" via e-mail and asked if they could provide any information or specs on the 7.62x54r conversion. That is the Finnish military museum in Finnland where the only known specimen is kept. We'll see if we get any kind of reply.
I will take some pics and try to get them posted tomorrow.
I'll have to do some tinsmithing on the UK59 can. It is bent somewhat at the latch end. But it can be straightened.
A thought. Well, a few actually!
Barrels -
There are some reports of "shot-out" barrels in some of these kits, where the barrel simply is no good for a firing gun, only for a blank gun or something like that.
Well, there is a source for the barrel base! Remove the 8mm barrel and presto you're set. You'd probably need to lathe the barrel to the right shape.
Or here's another thought - who was it that made brand-new USA barrels? That could be another source. Get a couple and you'd be golden.
Headspacing -
I'm not sure about how the headspacing would be done. In a normal one, from what I've read, they headspace at the factory and that's that.
To headspace, I presume you would set the headspace gauge in place and screw the barrel down until you get it to seat. Then you pin the barrel? Not sure on that part. HOWEVER once set, it would probably never need to be changed again.
Bolt Assembly -
The rim on the 7.62x54r is HUGE in comparison to a .308. The 8mm bolt can use a .308 so no problems there, however you're going to need to get a bolt faced for the rimmed cartridge.
Look here:
http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCartridges.htm
And you'll find this:
Now, I'm reading that the difference is .570 vs. .473 - that's what, .097" - almost 1/10th of an inch difference. I'd have to take it apart to see, but I am not certain if the bolt has enough meat on it to handle that. On the top of the bolt, where it strips the rounds, that of course has extra material. But on the bottom... dunno. Can you lathe the bolt face larger, and have the cartridge "hanging free" on the bottom? When in the chamber, would that "exposed" area be a candidate for case rupturing?
The extractor will probably need to be enlarged, and that may affect the ejector since it would be so much larger. The ejector would POSSIBLY need to be lengthened since it would no longer be kicking the edge of the cartridge, but more in-between the lip and the primer. Hope that makes sense... it would be ejecting about where the writing is on the cartridge.
Barrels -
There are some reports of "shot-out" barrels in some of these kits, where the barrel simply is no good for a firing gun, only for a blank gun or something like that.
Well, there is a source for the barrel base! Remove the 8mm barrel and presto you're set. You'd probably need to lathe the barrel to the right shape.
Or here's another thought - who was it that made brand-new USA barrels? That could be another source. Get a couple and you'd be golden.
Headspacing -
I'm not sure about how the headspacing would be done. In a normal one, from what I've read, they headspace at the factory and that's that.
To headspace, I presume you would set the headspace gauge in place and screw the barrel down until you get it to seat. Then you pin the barrel? Not sure on that part. HOWEVER once set, it would probably never need to be changed again.
Bolt Assembly -
The rim on the 7.62x54r is HUGE in comparison to a .308. The 8mm bolt can use a .308 so no problems there, however you're going to need to get a bolt faced for the rimmed cartridge.
Look here:
http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCartridges.htm
And you'll find this:
Now, I'm reading that the difference is .570 vs. .473 - that's what, .097" - almost 1/10th of an inch difference. I'd have to take it apart to see, but I am not certain if the bolt has enough meat on it to handle that. On the top of the bolt, where it strips the rounds, that of course has extra material. But on the bottom... dunno. Can you lathe the bolt face larger, and have the cartridge "hanging free" on the bottom? When in the chamber, would that "exposed" area be a candidate for case rupturing?
The extractor will probably need to be enlarged, and that may affect the ejector since it would be so much larger. The ejector would POSSIBLY need to be lengthened since it would no longer be kicking the edge of the cartridge, but more in-between the lip and the primer. Hope that makes sense... it would be ejecting about where the writing is on the cartridge.
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propos
hcpookie, how's that PKM coming? I missed the boat on one of them. Rats! According to the reference in Myrvang's book Aimo Lahti used the factory parts including the extractor. There is a picture of the bolt face in the book. It looks just like a normal bolt head. The only difference is the larger opening in the face for the cartridge rim. It would be a good idea to have several extractors made and have an extractor removal tool handy.
The headspace is done with the barrel extension on, I believe. Have to get one of jbaum's armorer's manuals yet.
hgosnell was the guy making the new barrels. I've PM'd him but haven't heard from him yet. He has a post in the F/S section with pics. He made very nice barrel's. I think the asking price was $250. When you consider the price of new barrels, it's not too bad. I was looking at barrel blanks from various makers and most were in the $200 and up range. Bear in mind that you will need a .310 bore. I found one guy that was making a barrel in 7.62x36 which would be tha right bore diameter. The .308 is too small and an 8mm too large at .323. There shouldn't be any problem chambering the barrel for the Russian round.
Oh, the cartridge pressure plate has to be modified. From the picture it looks like the long arm was shortened.
This can be done. With enough perserverance and some luck a SA42 in 7.62x54r is definitely doable.
The headspace is done with the barrel extension on, I believe. Have to get one of jbaum's armorer's manuals yet.
hgosnell was the guy making the new barrels. I've PM'd him but haven't heard from him yet. He has a post in the F/S section with pics. He made very nice barrel's. I think the asking price was $250. When you consider the price of new barrels, it's not too bad. I was looking at barrel blanks from various makers and most were in the $200 and up range. Bear in mind that you will need a .310 bore. I found one guy that was making a barrel in 7.62x36 which would be tha right bore diameter. The .308 is too small and an 8mm too large at .323. There shouldn't be any problem chambering the barrel for the Russian round.
Oh, the cartridge pressure plate has to be modified. From the picture it looks like the long arm was shortened.
This can be done. With enough perserverance and some luck a SA42 in 7.62x54r is definitely doable.
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pathfinder
- Unteroffizier
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:49 pm
Re: i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53
The Ruger mini-30 used a .308 barrel with a tapered lead into the rifling to shoot 7.62x39. It allowed the use of regular .311 ammunition or .308 for a wider selection of bullets for reloaders. You might check out a british .303 barrel for a blank, I think that they also used a .311 bullet. Good luck!
Re: i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53
Yes it does. The Bren barrels would be a close match but the gas port would need to be plugged. Or just get a .303 barrel blank from elsewhere.pathfinder wrote:You might check out a british .303 barrel for a blank, I think that they also used a .311 bullet. Good luck!
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propos
Re: i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53
TDubo and bil, did you check my posts onthis. A conversion is in the works by a member other than myself here. In fact he has my bolt head and a barrel torechamber. the conversion is close to being finalized.
what is going on with teh site? I can't see anything. I'm typing in teh dark and I can't get to teh main page.
what is going on with teh site? I can't see anything. I'm typing in teh dark and I can't get to teh main page.
Re: i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53
It was updated/ and everything is in a differant place.Main page doesn't have the MG gun crew pic yet.Look under the box with the 'X',there is a place that says 'Board index' with an arrow.Just click there.Good to see you more often,and hope to see some more progress on the two projects.I am not much on a machine,so it is always amazing to me to see when someone makes an entire new thing out of another. I don't know if there are settings to lighten up the print,I miss the color choice panel,it brightened up my day and was a problem for others-a win-win situation! ---bil
---bil"I dream of a world where I can buy alcohol,tobacco and firearms from the same drive-up window,and use them all on the way home from work!" Dogbert
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propos
Re: i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53
An MG-42 .30 barrel can b used. Must have enough leade in the chamber though. Same a sRuger Mini-. BTW, i'm typing this in teh dark. I don't know what's going on withthe site, but I can't get to the forums and the screen is so dark I'm practically blind. What's up with this? Help
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propos
Re: i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53
My rechambered barrel and bolt head wil arrive very soon. DT I've discussed the project with the guy who successfully has converted a to .6x5R. I don't feel at liberty to name him. I'm sure when he is ready we'll all know wht the deal is. BTW, I'm still in the dark otherwiswe I'd add some more but damn this sucks.
Hey Feild Marshal bil, the PPS is waitng on an extractor plunger and tthen it's off to the range to try her out. The Cetme is at teh point of welding teh trunnion to the receiver. Soory about the lousy posting.
Hey Feild Marshal bil, the PPS is waitng on an extractor plunger and tthen it's off to the range to try her out. The Cetme is at teh point of welding teh trunnion to the receiver. Soory about the lousy posting.