i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53

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turbothis

i am thinking about making a 7.62x54r m53

Post by turbothis »

anyone ever get these ideas?
1 mosin barrel put in the barrel extension
2 bolt head opened up
3 top cover raised
4 feed tray widened
5 a lot of time but worth it in the end. :D
justashooter
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Post by justashooter »

what for links? the UK 59 might be a better idea for you. it is available from centerfire cheap, and there is a build doctrine in progress. an entirely different animal, but feasable.

the traditional conversions to 54R are the 1919 (done in wartime by several nations, and in 303 brit by several, as well), the bren gun (an easy conversion), enfield bolt guns (also easy), etc. in case of a belt fed, you are gonna need a push pull like the browning design, rather than a push thru like the '42.
working on it!
turbothis

Post by turbothis »

cool, thanks for the info. any more
propos

Post by propos »

Actually, the Finns built a MG-42 in 7.62x54R . Apparently it worked perfectly. The links in the belt were modified to use the rimmed cartridge and the feed mechanism and feed tray were modded to accept the round. There is a detailed description in Myrvang's book on page 187. It was designed by Aimo Lahti, the same guy who designed the Suomi M31 and the Lahti pistol. The bolt face was also opened up to accept the rim of the cartidge.
So, it is doable if you have the tools to do it. Come to think of it, that would be one hell of a neat SA-42. And it would use cheap 7.62x54R ammo. Hmmm. Now you have me thinking.
BTW, if you you don't have Myrvang's book, "MG-34-MG42, German Universal Machineguns", buy one. Lots and lots of good information in the book.
This build might be something to pursue. If it was done once, it could be done again. One problem would be modifying the belt. But I believe it can be done. Guess I'll have to root out a cartridge and play. You might be able to use a .308 barrel. I can't remember who is making new barrels for the 42 but maybe he could chamber one in the Russian round. Since the barrels aren't chromed it shouldn't be a problem to cut a chamber in one.
Dammit turbothis, you just had to go and float this idea. Now you have me thinking about another build. Thanks a lot buddy.
I was thinking about buying a PKM because of the cheap ammo which I have stacked in the basement. Since a PKM kit is going for $1500 and the receiver is $360, plus the other work that has to be done to get it working, a 7.62x54R SA-42 might be cheaper. Whether it would be easier is another thing.
turbothis

Post by turbothis »

i have ideas that would blow your mind! i have to hold back a lot. my brain races with ideas. every gun i get ahold of just sparks more ideas. dam brain.
Bil
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Post by Bil »

Like Propos said,the Finns did it-could that also be a source for belts?It would save more time for building. ---bil
propos

Post by propos »

I intend to investigate the possibility of this idea. I'm thinking of buying another kit and using that as a basis for the build. This has me very intrigued.
I have no idea how you would obtain original Finnish belts. They are in all likelyhood in a Finnish museum and are not for sale. I'm going to play around with a belt and cartridge just to get an idea of what may be involved.
BTW, Bil, your case went out today via UPS. When you get your display finished post pics of it.
turbothis

Post by turbothis »

i was going to get some pkm belts and start there. i though of getting a 91/30 barrel and lathe it to the correct size of the barrel extension on the m53.
propos

Post by propos »

That's a possibility. I'm not sure that a M91/30 barrel will work but hey, anything is worth a try. For myself I would rather go the .308 barrel and have it rechambered for the Russian cartridge. That way the barrel is of the correct configuration.
I reread the chapter on the Finnish conversion. The bolt face, feed tray and feed mechanism were only sliightly modified. The biggest hurtle was the belt. I'm not familiar with a PKM belt. Is it a metal linked belt and does the PKM feed the cartridge through the link or does it retract and then feed the cartridge into the chamber. If it feeds directly a PKM belt may be the way to go.
The Finnish belt has the links wider and a finger on either side of the cartridge to hold it in place instead of the single finger on the top like on the MG-42 belt. But I believe that the MG-42 could be made to work. A tapering tool could be used to expand the link to allow the cartridge to feed from the belt. I think the finger can be reformed to slip over the rim of the 7.62 cartridge. I'll have to find another belt to sacrifice as I'm not going to use my WWII German belts. Anybody have an old worn out belt that they could sell me?
But if the PKM belt works that would solve the biggest problem with converting to 7.62x54R. Modifying the feed mechanism should be rather straight forward. Dan should have the feed parts to use to convert the feed mechanism and the feed tray. The feed tray was opened up so that the cartridge could slip down through into the chamber.
The Russian round is shorter than the 8mm and about a 1/4" longer than a .308. Might need a spacer of some sort in the feed tray.
turbothis

Post by turbothis »

how much does a rechamber cost? availability?
hcpookie
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Post by hcpookie »

The PKM belt is a maxim belt. The PKM is like a 1919 in that it "pulls" the rear of the cartridges via a "pickle fork" type of mechanism, the bullet drops down and is pushed into the chamber.

I don't see how a PKM/maxim belt would even come close to working in an MG42 action.

My advice would be to find out what the Finns did. If they did get it to work then just copy their design - no need to reinvent the wheel.
Bil
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Post by Bil »

Was the Finnish gun in wide-spread use in Finland,or was it more of a prototype/experimental thing?I know the Norwegians didn't change much of the guns they got,but we still get things there.If the Finns issued the gun in any amount,I would think that something like a belt would be easier to find than maybe a special feed trat or barrel.Each gun would have many belts,a larger stock availabal.You would just have to find someone that reads or speaks Finnish.Not so easy as it is not related to any of the languages nearby.Just a thought. ---bil
Bil
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Post by Bil »

I would add to the previous post-never mind!I have been doing some further research on this-although the Finns did do a conversion that worked,they could not get enough receivers[sound familiar?],and did not follow through,as the Continuation War had ended.Only one complete conversion was made.There are some pictures in Myrvang's book.An aside-anyone interested in reading on the Russo-Finnish war should get the book 'A Frozen Hell' by William R. Trotter.It deals with the first war,39/40.A real good book about a war that most people don't know about,but that had profount effect on events during the invasion of Russia. ---bil
turbothis

Post by turbothis »

please show me how this pull type belt works. and the pickle fork, oh i am interested now! [(O)]
FAL_specialist

Post by FAL_specialist »

Use a VZ/UK 59 belt.
This weapon fires from a open bolt and pushes the round out forward through the belt similar to a 42. The rear of the belts cartridge holder/clip is slightly angled to slide the rimmed base out of the belt as its pushed forward.

The spacing of the belts are almost identical.

Heck, a M-13 link belt has 9 rnds whereas the DM1 belt has 8 rnds within that short of distance!
Some claim you can use either of these with no mods in regards to spacing!!

Larry
Attachments
belts.jpg
belts.jpg (16.53 KiB) Viewed 3940 times
FAL_specialist

Post by FAL_specialist »

Order of belts

UK59 top
DM1 center
M-13 bottom
Attachments
belts 1.jpg
belts 1.jpg (20.61 KiB) Viewed 3838 times
propos

Post by propos »

Ok, where can I get a UK59 belt? I don't know how much a gunsmith would chagre to rechamber a .308. There is enough metal to di it. The Russian round is thicker around the case body and longer tnan a .308. The biggest hurdle is the belt. IF a UK59 belt will work, most of the battle is over. I wonder if CFS has belts. I know they are selling the kit.
Looks like I'll have to do some surfing. Stay tuned.
ETA: Hgosnell was or is making brand spanking new .308 and 8mm with the extension installed and the chamber headspaced.. I don't know if he still does. I had to go back through quite a few posts before I found the thread.
Ok, now one of you guys PM him and see if he still has them and if he would rechamber one to 7.62x54R. Or just make one up from the get go.
ETA: Ok, I'm back again. CFS has UK59 belts, 5 belts and the can for $80. I wonder if they will sell them individually. Might have to give them a call tomorrow. Never hurts to ask.
turbothis

Post by turbothis »

way ahead of you. here you go dude. try and keep up. lol just kidding, but really.....http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp ... SKU=&MC=YJ
propos

Post by propos »

Great. I'll check them out. I was sitting here watching SG1 and I had an epiphany about the feed tray. Take 2 .308 feed trays, cut them and then reweld to the right dimension to use a 7.62x54R cartridge. Simple solution. Oh Dannnnn, got any .308 feed trays in stock? Well, I'm off to e-parts. Thanks turbothis.
turbothis

Post by turbothis »

one feed tray, cut, add metal. cheaper.
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